JOEL MARK WITT: Hey welcome back to Personality Hacker, I’m Joel Mark Witt.

ANTONIA DODGE: I’m Antonia Dodge

JOEL MARK WITT: We Just spoke to Merja in out last video, we’re going to talk to her in this video again. Talking about the INFx unveiled program that she has put together, we’re publishing here at personality hacker. It’s specifically for INFJs and specifically for INFPs who want to dig into their inner world, some of the inner wounds they might have, work on their inner child, inner parent work. In order to discover some of their greatest gifts and purposes they can bring to the world and [shape 00:00:31]. We talked a little bit about what that healing work looks likes, what some of the healing is. On the last video we had Merja share her story and in this video I want to talk about, with you Merja, why INFJs and INFPs would resist this work? I understand that it can be scary and vulnerable for them. We mentioned that in video number one. Beyond that though, what are some reasons why this could be something that they’re resistant to, digging in, if there’s so much gold at the end of the tunnel, if there’s so much great stuff at the end of the experience, why would someone resist this?

MERJA: Well the one thing that I really noticed, having run several programs for teachers, government funded programs and private programs as well, there’s a very specific pattern that happens that keep people in that space resistance and that is when the INF types stay in their introverted [group 00:01:26]. So when they’re really just bypassing the copilot process, obviously for INFJs its their harmony and for INFPs its the explorations. So when that is not being utilized, and it’s not being brought into the everyday space we condition ourselves to actually just believing our own story, the inner world, feeling like the inner world is the only world that there is. Then when we get outer world reflections that are not really running parallel to our inner world and there might even be conflict between the inner world and the outer world reflections, we tend to just hold on deeper to our inner world and the inner dialog and space that we are in because looking at or challenging what you’ve always believed to be true in your head is just too … There’s a possibility of it being too painful to be wrong about a specific thing because then it may challenge a specific things because then it may challenge everything that you have ever believed about yourself.

JOEL MARK WITT: You were talking last video, when we were talking about your story, your personal story, how you really went into, as an INFJ in particular, you went into that 10 year old accuracy process and also you used that harmony process to just make people feel good all the time and you really pushed yourself to be so perfectionistic with that 10 year old process and you were trying to achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve and almost keep at bay the work that you knew would really set you up. How did you switch … In other words why would you not want to go into that healing work personally? What was your personal resistance there? It was just too dangerous, too dark, too scary?

MERJA: It felt like having responsibility of your own life was too much, like actually stepping up and saying I matter, I matter as a person and owning that you are not happy in your life, it’s easier just to talk about it and it’s easier to complain about the things that are not right and it’s easier to give the outside forces, almost, the permission to run your life then it is to put your feet on the ground, root yourself into the core of the planet and just say I’m here, I’m here and I’m present with this. This is what I want to do and I’m owning what I want to do, regardless of whatever anybody else feels about it, this is what I want to do. It is one of the hardest things for INF types to own their own desires and ask for them to be fulfilled.

ANTONIA DODGE: So we mentioned in the first video that this program may shine a light on some dark spaces. I mean that’s what it’s designed to do, since it is a healing program it is meant to address traumas and we had a conversation around how that doesn’t necessarily have to mean something super duper scary however not that we’re talking about strategies we use to avoid this inner work, this is a good time to mention that the program might pull up some stuff for you and you might have some strategies that you’ve been running for a long time, strategies specifically designed to not go to these spaces and the program may massively persuade you to go to those spaces. So some of these strategies might start coming up while you are engaging in the program. When you’ve worked with people one on one, what have some of those strategies been and is there a way for a person to go through this program without having those strategies sabotage the work that they’re trying to do?

MERJA: Yeah, if I can try and explain it through the car model it will probably make most sense to everybody who is listening. So the biggest issue that … The first thing that arises, really where every starts going south, is that or copilot turns off as a not the best form of themselves. So for an INFJ, the harmony process, the shadow side of the harmony process is people pleasing, just that constant trying to anticipate what people need and fulfill those needs, even hysterically and as a result you become this overbearing, smothering person and that where it starts going, that’s where you start going downhill. So if you’re an INFJ thinking about doing this program and you’re thinking “Yes I’m going to do this really well and I’m going to please the teacher and I’m going to do all the exercises as well as I can” you’re already sliding down that hill.

For INFPs because the shadow side of their copilot process which exploration is basically distraction, distracting yourself away form what you know you should be doing. A lot of INFPs will find themselves finding reasons to either not do the exercises or not go into it or they find themselves feeling like they’ve already done this so they don’t have to go into it so much so they can go and do something else in the mean time and that’s how you know you’re already sliding down into the inner child side of things because it’s a very adult decision, it’s a very grownup decision to do this work for yourself so that you can help yourself and be there for yourself.

It’s not a great sign if the shadow side of your copilot that comes in and takes over and then you slide into those childlike behaviors. Like for INFJs the accuracy, which is about being perfect with these exercises we are going to, we’re going to do it perfectly or then going into this the sensation, which is “Oh I’m just going to have a couple of glasses of wine and some cheese while doing this course” and not really focusing on it at all and just “Getting a good bath going in the meantime.’

For an INFP when it slips from that distracting yourself away the child, actually you might still persevere and try and do these exercises but you feel like you’re kind of above them and you’ve already done them and you’ve already done them so you’re doing something else, you might be multitasking at the same time. So then you slip into the 10 year old, the memory and you know the 3 year old, the effectiveness and you know, especially the memory will then have an opinion about whether to not this has worked in the past and whether or not this now is the right thing to do and then you start doubting it and then you kind of go like “Ah, yeah, you know what this actually, probably, isn’t the right thing to do at all” and then the effectiveness thing kicks in and says “We shouldn’t be doing this now, this is a waste of time, we’re not doing this any more, this is how we’re going to do this personal development journey.” So that’s usually what happens.

ANTONIA DODGE: Yeah, yeah so one of things that you might want to consider as the person who is vetting to determine whether or not its the right program for you is to recognize that you might hit a space where this is going to come up for you. It might be … It’s almost like if it’s coming up for you, we don’t want to create some sort of double bind here but if there’s a bunch of discomfort that’s leading to these thoughts then that might actually be a sign that it’s working. If you feel this idea of like “Well this can’t be right, I’ve tried this before and it doesn’t work” or if there’s a feeling of overwhelm or it there’s a feeling of “I’m just going to do it perfect and I’m going to please the teacher.” These might be signs that you are actually getting some place, that you’re actually heading to one of those dark places and what’s so fabulous, I think, about you Merja, especially in the last video when we talked about your personal story, you are an example of somebody who’s gone through extreme trauma and have gotten to a point where you be vulnerable.

You are an example of how you don’t have to be trapped by those traumas of the past. So if you’re feeling overwhelmed, if your feeling like it’s too much and all those strategies start ticking up, like all those gatekeepers going like “Yeah, I don’t think I want to think about this anymore, let’s figure out some reason why I’m not supposed to be” then keep looking to Merja as the example of somebody who’s gone through it, keep look to Merja as somebody, as an example of having hit the darkest spaces and been able to graduate.

So that’s something that we will really want to touch on because in healing work and this might be one of the reasons I love achievement work because everybody want the carrot, right, everybody wants to get the thing that they want so if you just call out “Well this is your limiting belief,” people go “Yeah, yeah your right this is a limiting belief” but with healing work we’re touching on very sensitive subjects, we’re touching on very sensitive parts of who we are and so this is a different animal, healing work is a different animal then achievement work is and that’s one of the reasons why it’s really important to make sure you are ready for this experience.

JOEL MARK WITT: So I’ve got a question about, again underneath this is gold, underneath this is purpose, underneath this is the gift that an INFJ or an INFP will bring to the world. Do you think there is some INFPs and INFJs listening, watching, that they fear doing the healing work they might need to do or uncovering someone’s inner child, inner parent work. They fear that once they find that purpose, once they find the mission of life, once they find the gift that they want to bring to the world, now they are responsible to bring that to the world and it’s almost fearing success, it’s almost fearing the depth and the amazing stuff inside of them, that “I don’t know what I’ll do with all that internal power and internal permission.” Have you encountered that when you’re working with people, where they almost fear the good stuff, not the bad stuff, in a sense? Does that make any sense?

MERJA: Yeah, absolutely, it’s one of the challenges that everybody really has but the great thing about it is that if you can use the tools, that are actually on this course, to self parent you yourself what will happen is that you will uncover one of two or maybe three steps ahead of yourself at a time. So you’re not going to do this course and then arrive to a place where you now know that you need to do everything for the next 5 or 10 years. It’s not like that because we all keep evolving over time, so we only every uncover the amount of steps that we are ready to take, that makes sense to where we are right now. If you find yourself being in that position, that you now think that you should plan for the next 5 or 10 years, you already know that you’re not in present with yourself, so you’re not in you perspectives, you’re not in your authenticity, you’re somewhere in the shadow sides of accuracy or memory in that 10 year process which is all about a low level of stress but kind of building until you can’t take that anymore and where you end up then?

ANTONIA DODGE: So basically the program approaches a scale-up mentality, which is that work at the level that you’re currently ready for and don’t feel pressure to go to this ultimate or penultimate place and I do, as somebody who works with personality types a lot, I think that there’s a reason whey David Keirsey called NF types the idealist. I think there is a certain level of idealism with INFJs and INJPs when they’re working on self improvement, that they can get frustrated with themselves or frustrated with the process of feel like they should be further along or feel like the critical self talk comes in with “Oh I should be doing this better” but the program is designed to go “You’re at the place that you are at and that’s totally fine and go ahead and scale up and it might be a process and it might take a little bit of time and that’s okay.”

MERJA: Absolutely and what is interesting about all this healing journey is that it’s not just about expansion, you will realize that your healing journey is a part of it, a big part of it and as important part as expansion is distraction and coming back and just closing things in and resting in that space from where you can then expand again. You will understand that there’s a balance in life that if you want to achieve great things in the next 5 years, your path to those amazing things is actually paved with resting. It’s not paved with hysterical, it’s paved … It’s not do-do-do-do-do, it’s do-rest-do-rest and that’s the rhythm of any achievement and when you do it like that, you can actually achieve 3 times as much in the same period of time as you would if you just hysterically doing and burning yourself out.

JOEL MARK WITT: I think of the analogy of strength training with free weights. When you lift your tearing muscle and it’s the rest periods where the muscle rebuilds, that’s what gives you the strength. It’s the between times of the stress that your putting on the body and I guess what you’re talking about, in personal growth the type of work your taking about, it’s that in between time, the rest, where the real work happens but it’s happening, almost, inside and its that rest period that’s so important after you push and I think that’s a really important process for everyone. It’s not going to just be pushing-pushing-pushing-pushing, it’s push-rest and I think that’s really a good point.

MERJA: That’s such a good, sorry, that’s just such a good way of saying it because I often get drawn parallels of being an emotional PET, an emotional personal trainer or in other contexts I’m like the big sister of this person because it’s about balance, it’s not about just pushing and that up energy, it’s about working from inspiration and then taking a rest and then working from inspiration again and then taking a rest and sometimes the inspiration is about dark stuff but you know you’re ready to go there because you’re actually inspired to go there and be there and be therefor yourself on a deeper level then you’ve ever been before.

JOEL MARK WITT: What I love about you teaching this course, because you’re an INF yourself, you have a sense of what an INFP or an INFJ might be going through and Antonia and I just cannot, as much as we can relate a lot to a lot of different types, we are not introverts, we are not introverted feeler and I think that you will bring an unique perceptive to people honoring the pace that their going to need to go to. So I really appreciate that. I’d like to do one more video with you where we could talk about some specific examples, maybe some specific examples from people you worked with and not name any names but give us a sense of that and maybe get in some specifics around the program, too, because we’ve talked about the theory, we’ve talked a lot about the healing and your personal story and stuff and let’s get more concrete around what actually people are going to show up and experience, maybe sessions and things. So let’s do one more video on that and we’ll see you on that video. My name is Joel Mark Witt.

ANTONIA DODGE: And I’m Antonia Dodge.

JOEL MARK WITT: We’re going to talk with Merja on the next video, see you there.

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