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PHQ | QUESTIONS FROM COMMUNITY: In this episode Joel and Antonia talk about INTP vs INFP.

 

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Showing 33 comments
  • Sola
    Reply

    For a while I thought I was INFJ but after reading about the five differences between INFJ and INFP I was sure I was the latter but after listening to this I feel even more confused now! lol Seriously though what you guys do is really cool and clarifies a lot of things but as I listened to this while referring to the car models for both types I was relating to most every point! I actually think some people are evil AND stupid! (Or perhaps more accurately, they are “stupid” because they are evil though I concede not all stupid people are evil). I would absolutely hate to be considered/labeled either of these and I’m not sure which of these weighs more in my mind (or perhaps I have yet to come to such a decision). I read in one of your articles how family dynamics can affect how we manifest our type so could it be that I’m a female INFP who was strongly influenced by her (my guess is) ENTJ mom and thus have a fairly developed Te function? Harmony isn’t my strongest suit either and I relate with that point as well (or could it perhaps be because it isn’t even among INFPs’ cognitive functions?). I loved how you used Richard Branson and founder of Zappos as examples and I can sort of relate to both their aspirations though I relate more with the latter. I’m helping mom run the family’s franchise business even though I finshed with a Fine Arts degree. Oh dear, hope I don’t end up destroying THAT system. So yeah, blown away and confused at the same time if it’s possible. lol

    • Sola
      Reply

      I finally just took your test and came out as INTJ, how odd.

      • Charis Branson
        Reply

        Maybe that is why you’re confused about INFJ and INFP. Maybe you are an INTJ. INTJs conscious 10 year old is Fi or Authenticity. I used to think my INTJ husband was a feeler because he spent more time in his feeler process than he should have.

        Have you read this article?

        http://www.personalityhacker.com/intj-personality-type/

        • Sola
          Reply

          Hi! Thanks for replying. Yes, I have read that article you have linked to right after I got my result in my search for more information to clarify this piece of the puzzle, this new bit of information (except it isn’t really THAT new. I’ve gotten INTJ before on other tests but somehow forgot. Actually now that I noted down all of my results I find that I score INTJ half the time, while I score something different the rest of the time ie. 4 counts INTJ, 1 count each INFJ, INFP, INTP, ISTP). I was actually really expecting to get INFP on the personality hacker test. My initial thoughts when I got the result were “No effing way, I’m not badass enough to be INTJ!”. I do still feel that way but I do realize I’m not quite as INFP as I think I am either. Analyzing the INTJ functions made me realize I relate very well to all the INXXs quite possibly through primary function Ni which you have aptly nicknamed “Perspectives”. I also know NOW I’m not INFJ, I don’t care as much about harmony and have little patience for people-pleasing to get what I want. It disgusts me but I do it anyway some of the time because I’m pragmatic like that. Also I can be quite belligerent and proactively vengeful but I do have a strong sense of justice and fairness especially for the innocent, the weak, and oppressed. Is Batman INTJ? Haha I can totally relate to his cause. How could I have ever thought I was INFJ? Or even INFP? I WANT to be INFP so badly though! Is that my Fi clamoring for attention? Incidentally several years ago I took the Gallup strengths finder test and was disappointed to get Deliberative, Restorative, Intellection, Empathy, and Learner as my top five themes and wanted instead to have Ideation like my friend I went to Fine Arts with. I remember feeling envious. All throughout uni I never felt “creative” and “artistic” enough for the scene. Haha I don’t think I even looked or dressed the part. Now in the present seems like a repeat of that. But it’s okay now I guess. As long as I get to be Batman haha. Is Lisbeth Salander from Girl With Dragon Tattoo also INTJ? If she is then I’m on board with the INTJ thing. Watching her exact revenge on her abuser was deeply satisfying. She never actually killed him though but she made sure he could never abuse anyone ever again by, of all things, giving him an ugly tat job haha. Sometimes I daydream of doing that sort of thing to pedos and murderers and child abusers and kidnappers.

          • Sola

            And rapists, too, I forgot to add.

          • Charis Branson

            Our best type guess for Lisbeth Salander is an INTP.

            INTJs have a strong sense of justice too. As an INFJ myself, I loved that scene in GWDT. There’s nothing more gratifying than when assholes get what’s coming to them.

            INTJs can also be quite creative. They also lead with a Learning Process (Ni – Perspectives), which may explain why you got Learner in your Gallup poll. INFPs lead with a decision making process (Fi – Authenticity).

            Not all INTJs have their shit together. It usually depends on how much time they have spent exercising their co-pilot of Te (Effectiveness). So, don’t think you have to be a badass.

            As an INFJ, I envy the Te process of INTJs. If I had to choose I would prefer to be INTJ.

    • Lily
      Reply

      You’re INFP. I can tell just from how you articulate yourself.

  • Wulfex
    Reply

    I’m so glad you guys answered this. I hang around PerC quite a bit, and on the INFP forum, this topic comes up at least once a month. After seeing it so often… I’m kind of getting tired of repeating myself in every one of these threads, I feel like a robutt. As a generally rule of thumb, I have also found that most INFP/INTP confusion is from an INFP.

    Interesting you mention INTPs and video games. Had had never really thought about it in terms of cognitive functions. After you mentioned it, I wondered if that was why a lot of gamers come of as, kind of assholes to new players. Usually, when I find one of these people, I have done something that is completely illogical to them and they can not let it go. Now, I’m curious how many of those are XXTPs who use “Harmony” as their 3 year olds.

    Anyway, thank you for answering this question! I will be linking all confused INTP/INFPs here! 🙂

    • Charis Branson
      Reply

      Thanks for the feedback, Wulfex! Interesting observation that most people who are confused about being INTP/INFP are usually INFP. I think there are a lot of INFPs that type as INFJs too. I wonder if that is their tendency to mirror others, like a chameleon. They take on the personalities of whomever they are with.

      • Wulfex
        Reply

        I have typed as an INFJ as well, solely on the fact that P/J is often referred to as Disorganized/Organized.

        On tests, they ask questions like “Do you show up late to appointments?” Yes for P and No for J. As an INFP, I don’t show up late for appointments because I don’t want to hold up the appointment behind me or the person I’m meeting with. I’m always early! I am using “P” but it’ s from Authenticity (Introverted Feeling). I know I don’t like to wait on people who are late so I don’t want that for someone else.

        I blame the confusion on bad tests, particularly one that just tries to figure out the letters instead of figure out the cognitive functions.

        • Charis Branson
          Reply

          That’s what makes typing an INFP so complicated. If they have decided to authentically identify with something as being important to their inner alignment, they may show up very different from the average INFP. You have decided being late is rude so you avoid being late.

          If you are late due to unforeseen circumstances, though, do you beat yourself up over it? I carry around guilt for long periods of time. My husband (another Judger) will refuse to go if he has to walk in late.

  • red panda
    Reply

    Hello,
    Very interesting discussion! I’ve been interested in personality ever since I read The Introvert Advantage about six years ago and realized I’m not completely weird, I’m introverted (and only somewhat weird). After learning about MBTI a few years ago, I’ve been trying to clarify whether I am an INTP or an INFP. I’ve taken several different tests online from various sites and have gotten both results, usually with the T and F scoring very closely, for example about 55% T and 45% F or vice versa, on tests that show percentages. I have always second guessed the results of these tests as they could have gone the other way if I had answered one or two questions differently.
    When I delve into the cognitive functions as a way to try to clarify my type, I find that I still end up relating to both INTP and INFP personalities. So I wonder if maybe my struggle to figure out whether I am an INTP or INFP is actually a manifestation of Accuracy trying to gather all the data to make the correct conclusion, and therefore I am in fact an INTP. I know the general thought holds that it’s far more likely for an INFP to misidentify as an INTP than for an INTP to misidentify as INFP; however I wonder if in my case I may be INTP based on my use of Accuracy to try to validate my “true” personality type.
    Though one point that confuses me is that I am very conscious of other people’s feelings to the point that I will not point out their mistakes because I don’t want to hurt their feelings or appear pretentious even when I know that they are wrong about something. And this seems to be a feeling, or Harmony, trait, of an INFP. So I am still a bit confused.
    Hopefully all of that makes sense. Does anyone happen to have any thoughts? It would be helpful to get some outside perspective on this.

    • Charis Branson
      Reply

      Thanks for your questions, Red Panda! INFPs are usually willing to be total pariahs in behalf of their convictions because it is more important to be internally aligned than externally. That reflects the tendency to “double-down” as Antonia mentioned.

      You describe the Harmony process here:

      “I am very conscious of other people’s feelings to the point that I will not point out their mistakes because I don’t want to hurt their feelings or appear pretentious even when I know that they are wrong about something.”

      Harmony isn’t even in the INFP’s car model and is inferior (3 year old) to INTPs.

      Harmony shows up strongly in Judger personality types (Driver – ENFJ/ESFJ; Copilot – INFJ/ISFJ).

      I personally typed as an INTP for years because I was so focused on Ti – Accuracy. But when I tried to practice radical honesty it was too painful since I found offending others more painful than offending myself.

      My actual type is INFJ – Harmony copilot, Accuracy 10 Year Old. I actually feel better when my decision making involves meeting the needs of others. Whenever I get subjective and start looking at people as either stupid or evil it doesn’t feel as good and I feel misaligned with my true values.

      Does any of that help?

  • Catarina
    Reply

    I’m an INTP woman who thought was an INFP, certainly because I’m really artistic. I feel like I’m in the middle of both personalities but I care more about doing things right artistically, than about being authentic.
    Because of this my art subject is always changing and I don’t get stuck in a style or identity, or I don’t care much about it. But I’m a 5w4 so I don’t like when people copy me.
    It took me a long time to get here, it was certainly after I completed the basic puzzle you talked about. Before this I thought I was an INFP.
    I understood it because of extroverted feeling, I studied the function and understood it didn’t make sense to be an introverted feeler.

    • Charis Branson
      Reply

      Thank you for your comment, Catarina! So, do you feel you identify more with Extraverted Feeling (Fe) than Introverted Feeling (Fi)? As an INTP, Fe would be fairly unconscious for you – maybe even a blind spot. It may come across as emotionally manipulative or bullying. You would feel better practicing radical honesty because of your Introverted Thinking Driver. How do you feel when you practice radical honesty? Do you find the idea of offending others distressing?

      INFPs feeling process is their Driver so it is stronger and more developed (making their thinking process a veritable blind spot). INFPs have the tendency to seek psychological comfort and retreat into safety zones because of their 10 year old Memory process. They are willing to be a total pariah in behalf of their convictions – although this choice is more painful for them because they value human interaction more than INTPs.

      I can see why you identify with INFPs to a certain extent because your Enneagram (Investigator/Individualist) sounds very authentic, expressive and isolating.

      Does any of this offer any clarification?

  • ryan
    Reply

    I’m an INTP who was raised in a household full of feelers. I’m also artistic in the sense that I write well and I’m a musician.

    Antonia’s comment on being motivated by clarity resonated strongly with my experience. I would say that truth, or clarity of truth is one of the things that motivates me. This is how I distinguish myself from INFPs, who seem to be more focused on authenticity.

    In a nutshell, INTPs are seekers of truth; INFPs are seekers of meaning.

    • Charis Branson
      Reply

      Thanks for the comment, Ryan! I really like the way you put this: “INTPs are seekers of truth; INFPs are seekers of meaning.” I think that is a great distinction!

  • brendan
    Reply

    hi,

    I’m INFP but years ago the first time i took a test i came up as INTP. This is, I think because I considered the processes in my brain as thought not feeling, but my decision making is always intuitive and based on how i feel about things. I guess it was just a confusion of terms, probably because this is what i thought, thought was.

    thanks.

    • Charis Branson
      Reply

      Thanks for the INFP perspective, Brendan! Finally coming to realize which cognitive function you use is a huge step toward truly knowing yourself. Congratulations on figuring out this important distinction!

  • Samantha
    Reply

    Wow! I totally related to what you were saying about INTPs on every point, especially the part about motivation. For example, I’ve been working on a Masters degree for the last 4 years. One of the reasons it’s taken me so long is because of losing motivation and doing horribly in my classes. I need a Masters degree to do what I want to do (i.e. teach), but the content, for the most part, just bores me.

    • Charis Branson
      Reply

      Thanks for the comment, Samantha! You have taken on a worthy goal. Do you have a close friend or family member who can help you keep on task? Sometimes, just having someone check-in to make sure you are getting things accomplished on time can help you stay focused.

  • Linda J.
    Reply

    Thanks for the interesting podcast. I am an INTP female married to an INFP male. We have many challenges in our relationship, but it is interesting to hear the basic similarities in our personality types highlighted. In our case, it seems that when we were first together, the similarities created a synergy, but over time, the differences are creating friction. Do you have any specific resources you would recommend for helping sort out relationship conflicts between personality types? Thanks 🙂

  • Jason
    Reply

    I really enjoyed this podcast. I am an INTP who (to my knowledge) has never met another INTP. But, my cousin is INFP. Your answers hit on what I have observed which is that he and I often behave in a similar way, but with different motivations. Also, I have noticed that since we both use extroverted intuition we can communicate with each other quite well. We will both sit silently at a party trying to avoid small talk, but if we get a quiet moment we’ll start spitballing ideas, and debating existential issues or abstract theories together until any SJ within earshot is running for cover. That never ending flood of weird ideas for which we need some outlet, and usually can’t find a listening ear is the thing he and I have most in common.

    • Charis Branson
      Reply

      Thanks for the comment, Jason! It’s awesome that you and your cousin can be there for each other. Having a buddy to share Intuitive ideas is very important.

  • Holly
    Reply

    Hi,
    I’m very intrigued by your comment that Richard Branson is an INFP. I’m an INFP and I find it quite hard to believe that any INFP could lead a billion dollar business! (Not to be a downer 😉 He’s typed on other sites as ESFP…. I don’t know, I’m just trying to wrap my head around the possibility that an INFP can be a successful business leader/entrepreneur on that scale. Any other thoughts on that? Thanks!

    • A depressed Intuitive
      Reply

      As an aspiring entrepreneur I’m very happy Richard is one. I think l am one too. Authenticity, autonomy, self determination and inspirational leadership truly resonates with me. To think about going public with my company and losing control of vision and direction; at worse getting booted out of the company l created by investors and board of directors isn’t too appealing unless I plan to exit personally (sell out) and thus stop caring.

      I believe in personal excellence. There is no such thing as perfection but it possible to bring your best self to the table and keep striving and improving.

      Richard on a YouTube video regarding his philosophy regarding employees is that you should let your employees do their work in their terms (ie flex work arrangements) . If can’t/don’t trust them to perform why did you hire them in the first place? If they are treated well and are happy they will take care of it.
      I was impressed. Enough said.

      So it seems Richard is a bit hands off in this respect, not a total control freak.

      Another inspirational thought “leader” /anti hero
      is Edward Snowmen, the poster child of the whistle blower. He has a great Ted talk and a number of media interviews. He seems to be a very intelligent, moral guy. Lots of conviction, courage. Very inspirational. What he did is truly great, he did the right thing that should be done, when nobody else would…

      Ursula Franklin wrote that we live in a “society of compliance”. I think that mentality very pervasive and dangerous. Compliance is complicity. Just because everyone is doing it doesn’t mean you should…. Remember Hitler and his Aryan supremacy nonsense? Enron? Predatory subprime mortgage lending and selling them off as “safe investments”; corporate and personal tax evasion. The rich get richer, and every

      I think a lot of the social ills in society. It makes ME ill thinking about it. To think l have to participate in the very same society and the broken, unfair, cut throat, morally bankrupt system(s) of things is pretty depressing. Socially, we are going backwards (l can count thy ways), not really improving.

      One fear l have is living my life under in the tyranny of the Corporation. They are large, monopolistic, multinational entities with no loyalty to anyone but
      Themselves (profit, share holders, the 1%). They have vast resources of money and capital. Insidious, shadowy. The influence and infection is vast. They own the media, the banking system (hold entire governments down with debts) . They infiltrate (fund) schools ,prisons , foundations, politics. So in culture and governance, they have everything in their favour. The message, keep out of our affairs, you’re stifling economic growth and innovation, government is too big, free markets are best etc etc etc. It’s all BS

      Cash is King. The rulers of the world today aren’t literal Kings and Queen’s. They may as well be. We bailed them out in the recession, us peasants and debt slaves pay their taxes plus interest/fees.

      The forms of Capitalism & finance today is failing. There is no healthy market competition. Everything is rigged in their favour. Neither in wages (stagnant and falling globally, weakening of unions, worker standards and safety, automation, precarious employment) , or market shares(mergers, cartels) . It’s rapacious. in extracting the most out of everything living and not living. Everyone else is worse off than before in their wake. Negative Environmental, social, health impact is staggering. It’s perverse and dirty . It’s made Democracy and regulations are a joke. It’s so blatant now with the TPP. Just when things couldn’t get worse! It’s time to wake up… This is like colonialism without the need of armed forces. Lawyers, secret dealings, bribes, lobbyists….

      This has to stop. It’s not too late.

      Please look into the Trans Pacific Partnership in your country. It’s not a simple free Trade Agreement. It’s a power grab. Wolf in sheep’s clothing. Obama wants to sign and is pressuring other leaders to do the same.

      We have to put on the pressure that we aren’t stupid and won’t be duped into this secret, dirty deal. Most of the public did not know about it until the very late stages. Only recently in newspapers you will hear casual mentions the partnership but details are slim. Most people have no idea, no inkling what it is really about. Basically a foreign company trying to enter a new market can sue the local government for any reason regarding loss of revenue and profit. There will no litigation utilizing the local/national/international courts of law. It goes straight to arbitration. A secret, closed, one time , costly deliberation with elite group of “international lawyers“ with NO appeal. This is very dangerous, like opening a Pandora’s box. Rules and regulations protecting people and the environment will mean nothing. Dangerous products and practices will forced down our throats. They are nothing but bandits after an expensive legal battle (millions of dollars) Resources are for their taking from the defeated nation.

      I’m not making this up. We need to fight this. The TPP could be ratified very soon.

      I don’t know if hyperlinking is allowed, please Look up:

      #David Malone TPP
      Anything by John Oliver the comedian
      The Four Horsemen on youtube

  • Sarah Turco
    Reply

    Wow, that was really interesting! I’m an INFP, and I thought your answer was very accurate. Well done!

  • .:,
    Reply

    I typed myself as INTP twice at this site ! Yet it seems to me, that INFP is closer to home. Also I do not think that any INTP could be as weak in math and physics as me.

  • wanderer
    Reply

    I almost always test as an INFP, but I guess the source of confusion for me to whether I may be an INTP is because I am an INFP who has a background in science, and is generally into maths and programming (perhaps having an INTP mother also contributed to this?). So I’m trained to evaluate things based on evidence, ie. does a claim makes sense? is it backed up by evidence? I tend to get annoyed if someone posts some article that is clearly a hoax–didn’t they cross-check with other sources before sharing? Or at least evaluate for themselves whether the article itself makes sense? I also engage myself in debates if I deem the other person’s line of reasoning is not logical. Getting an understanding how the world works is also important for me, I continue to seek new information to test my ‘theory’ of how I think the world works. It’s frustrating for me if there are two conflicting evidence (or if things point to different directions), because after all, there should only be one ‘truth’ to things. Is this Ti or Te? Or is it just that ‘seeking the truth’ and ‘speaking based on evidence’ one of my internal values (Fi)?
    On the other hand, I get why I am an INFP. I still consider other’s feelings when I disagree with their opinions, and will often soften the blow for them. I will still try to see things from their point of view although inside I will still disagree with their arguments. Compared to my INTP mother, I consider myself more aware of social cues. She is much more direct than me, and though I know she never means any harm, the way she communicates and her obliviousness in social situations sometimes offends people (particularly my ISFJ mother-in-law). In making personal decisions I also tend to base it more on what feels right or wrong for me (Fi) instead of pure logic, eg. I decided to switch fields because I found myself deeply conflicted on the ethics of gene modification and the treatment of lab animals. My calling in life is to help the marginalized have a better living and be useful to others in general (again, very Fi). Aside from science I am also interested in literature and the arts, especially those heavy with social messages and symbolism, which may be a more typical INFP interest than science 😉

  • VincientV
    Reply

    Hello. I’m an INTP, and I’m quite sure of it, but I’ve heard this “generally INTPs don’t get confused” thing a lot, and I think that it isn’t true. I spent a lot of time wondering if I was actually an INFP. It wasn’t until I really started to understand cognitive functions that I was able to be certain that I was an INTP, because I am certain that I don’t have (or lead!) with Fi. However as we do have a great deal in common, and we are set up to question our own thoughts and root out personal biases, it’s easy to mistake our crying baby Fe that we don’t understand for being a full on lead function. Especially since we are all driven by our own personal feelings, regardess of how much we try to separate ourselves.Ironically, the “male” desire to be viewed as logical and thinking in this case actually caused me to overcompensate and question if I didn’t want to be viewed in this way because I was a male.

    This, with the fact that “feeling we are right” is common for both INFPs and INTPs (just depending on how you are defining right, as in correct or good) this can also lead to some confusion, since as INTPs are often going on a hunch until they can gather data to give some sort of proof. I once had a long argument with and INFJ in which I got kind of beaten up regarding the value of being “negative” vs “positive”, because I knew there was something to it, but it had recently occurred to me and as such I hadn’t fleshed out the argument before my Ne decided to bounce it off the world. Now that I’ve had sufficient time to think about it (in part because of said argument) I would present a logical reasoning process, but at the time I just knew I was right.

    In addition, with the an internal judging process paired with Ne, we both have a certain affinity for fantasy, although those fantasies may be slightly different. Nonetheless, given that this is one of the stereotypes of the INFP, when you realize you were the kid playing fantasy games by yourself, it makes you wonder. Also, Fe makes us actually care about “what is the best” for the world, overall. Even though this is the inferior function, it is still a major factor in our underlying motivation. Again, as this underlying factor is very important in our process, and thus easy to conflate with being a “feeler”, since the baseline description of feeling is “caring about good and bad”. Until one really starts to understand the nuances of cognitive functions, it’s quite easy to get lost with all those bad stereotypes. I like you guys, I just think that perpetuating this stereotype will potentially make it more confusing for people who may already be confused, and I wouldn’t be and INTP if I didn’t mention it.

  • infp
    Reply

    I’m a 14 year old intp/fp. I don’t know, but when I do I test I come up as an intp or infp
    (sorry for the crappy grammar)

  • Boniface Muggli
    Reply

    I have to say, I’m glad you addressed this question–and I finally got around to listening to it.

    As a (boy) child INFP–very Introverted and very Intuitive–I found protective coloration in acting as a more nerdy INTP, so I developed my Te (and even Ti) beyond most INFPs. I can still channel a good INTP, except for the intellectual arrogance of that type. (Although my silence can often be mistaken for arrogance . . .)

    But the breakthrough question for me came in College as: “Who do you want to become?” or “Who do you want to be?” (22:40–rather than “How do I want to think?” = INTP)

    I giggled (inside, at least) at Jason’s experience: when I (and other Ns) get on a roll of exploring possibilities and “what ifs,” amazing ideas can pour out. As he put it, “We will both sit silently at a party trying to avoid small talk, but if we get a quiet moment we’ll start spitballing ideas, and debating existential issues or abstract theories together until any SJ within earshot is running for cover. That never ending flood of weird ideas for which we need some outlet, and usually can’t find a listening ear is the thing he and I have most in common.” Yep!

    Like Wanderer, I have a strong background in philosophy, logic, math and science, which also helps me tend to act INTP. It helps compensate for my very undeveloped Si (Memory)–I only tend to remember what is relevant at the time.

    And I certainly resonate with VincientV’s confusion–but for me Fi is definitely presence, and my T function is more Te oriented than Ti. And I agree about the fantasy–even solo fantasy play.

    I do try to figure out how the world works and develop good systematic understanding and models–that Clarity Antonia speaks of at about 16:30 and later. For me that’s Te. But even more I find myself seeking alignment and authenticity: being true to my principles and values (Fi).

    Another way I look at it is that I used INTP manners to hide my feelings and values deep within and protect them from those who would ridicule them. But, when it counts, I do go by Fi values and Authenticity. I no longer fear standing up for what matters–although I do not force my values and choices on others; I invite them to join me. But in the end, I NEED meaning and value in my life, or what’s the point?

    I also chuckled about “wrapping this up, because it’s getting kind of long” (22:22)–NFs tend to get very wordy. . . .

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