Podcast – Episode 0235 – Goddesses In Everywoman — The Alchemical Goddess Archetype

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  Bethany 2018-09-26

  Reply

  I’ve been listening to these over the past few days and I want to know if these archetypes would be tied into the types included with zodiac, where the gods and goddesses are linked to each zodiac. Would that have an influence on what types people are drawn to?
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  Sara 2018-08-11

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  Hi Antonia and Joel!

  This series had been very interesting to listen to. I have been thinking about how I have given out my energy and while I can’t really tell which is my strongest overall archetype throughout the years but I can see the different ones that dominate at a particular period of my life.

  As a girl , I remember having the idea of Athena’s energy to be the ideal female archetype. I was too young to be consciously politically minded but I was rather into feminism, not in the sense that women should be equal to men but rather, superior to them. Thus, I was very into ‘tough activities’ and being able to compete with boys in physical endeavours however, I believe this wasn’t my natural energy shining as while I tried to be. I don’t naturally think strategically and I wore my emotions on my sleeves, so to speak. While I looked down on the ‘weaker girls’, I still associated myself with other fellow girls and rarely shied away from standing up for them or with them.

  I think I was more of an Aphrodite in truth but it’s a little hard to see as I was brought up in an Abrahamic faith (and I still believe in my faith as the objective truth) so I didn’t have the inclination towards seduction. Almost everything else, however does ring true. I was passionate in everything I willingly chose to do (and I didn’t do much that I didn’t want to) from learning new things at school, playing at the playground and even when I was praying to God. In friendship, I looked for people who were exciting to be around with so there were times when I unconsciously ignored a previously close friend because someone else had more exciting things to offer but I treasured every one of the relationships I had and mourned over the ones I accidentally harmed or destroyed.

  Aphrodite’s energy started to lose their dominance in my early teens, I believe around the time when my Fi was awakening and I did a lot of introspection (I identify as an ENFP). Part of what I worked on during my self exploration was to be more conscious of the choices I make so that they were true to my beliefs. I think, in an attempt to tame that wild Aphrodite nature (one of the things I was actively trying to deal with at that time was my temper, which could get violent), I accidentally slipped into Persephone’s young girl energy and attempted to mould myself into what is considered acceptable, not technically by the society but by those in my social circles through my own moral values. So I wasn’t bothered if they see me as a klutz as I didn’t see that as a negative trait but I was trying to teach myself tolerance but instead I became emotionally dependant. I’m still trying to work my way out of a place of extended adolescence and hopefully I’ll move on from this ‘young Persephone’ stage.

  In nurturing the vulnerable, I also have some Artemis and Hestia energy. A few years ago, my ailing grandparents moved in with us and I was their primary caretaker and that gave me such a good feeling that during the times I spent with them, I could slip out of the ‘victim Persephone energy’ and be more of a Hestia. My Artemis energy comes up less often but I was fiercely protective of them if I feel (at times incorrectly) that others are taking advantage of them. I see these energy coming up in my relationship with my cats too.

  If I have to guess, my overall dominant energy is Aphrodite with Hestia coming up close but my unhealthier habits tend to come from young Persephone. It’s interesting to see how I tend to balance the Aphrodite energy with Hestia’s. When I get overly anxious, I find that a few housework works wonders. Something physically exerting yet doesn’t require a lot of mental energy like hand washing clothes or gardening. While my Aphrodite tends to go head over heels to chase the next big thing, Hestia would hold me back, not in a dependant way of Persephone’s but in a calmer, quieter ‘let’s just take a step back and do some cleaning while we think over this matter’ kind of way.
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  janet cade 2018-08-09

  Reply

  I am grateful to you both for your deep insights that you add to these energieis. Like all your work – intense – bouncing off of one another. Really Cool. Thanks alot for this!
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  Tyler 2018-08-04

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  I’m excited to hear about the masculine archetypes. However having listened to the last three episodes I identify significantly with the Aphrodite archétype as presented in the podcast. I’m an ENTP who grew up in a very strict religious house where sexuality was minimized if not entirely denied. Discovering my penchant for connecting with others intimately, briefly, and positively has been eye opening in my thirties. It is a hard road to pursue and I find not well accepted by anyone but other Aphrodite, whom I have always gravitated towards in my teens and 20s.
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  kate 2018-08-03

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  thanks for doing these podcasts. i listened to the first one, checked out goddesses in everywoman from the library and finished it somewhere between the vulnerable goddesses and the alchemical goddess podcasts. as a persephone/aphrodite with splashes of artemis and hera, i found her archetypes intriguing, but as a primarily persephone type i was pretty disappointed in her elevation of virgin goddesses and detriment of the other goddesses. perhaps it’s her age/generation/time it was written. i hope someone writes a book based on her theory with a more balanced view. still, i am loving the podcasts and the *idea* of it all…i think it just needs some tweaking or updating.
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  Meghan 2018-07-30

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  I was surprised by how much I identified with Aphrodite. I was sure I wouldn’t at all and went into the podcast determined not to mistakenly find myself in her. I expected to find most of myself in Artemis, but I think that only one aspect of my psyche (although one I value greatly, my activism and feminism) is from there. My identification with Hesthia also was a huge shocker. This series is so
  cool because I’m able to see parts of myself in these archetypes that I wasn’t fully seeing.
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  Sivana Holler 2018-07-25

  Reply

  You know it is amazing how the Greeks did all of this. I have studied Greek mythology, and I never realized how thought through all of it was. They didn’t even really have psychology yet they were able to observe men and women so intricately.
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  Drew 2018-07-24

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  I’m loving this goddesses + gods series, as I’ve always found it fascinating how human-like the gods of old, polytheistic religions were/are.

  I’ve found myself relating very much to both Persephone and Aphrodite in different, but related, senses. I should say that I’ve also noticed how these archetypes relate to my Myers-Briggs typing, which I finally think I’ve settled on as an ISFP.

  I’m 23 now, and for the past decade, I’ve experienced a number of “mini-traumas” that led to a struggle with complex PTSD. This is, of course, where I see the Persephone in myself. I feel that my life from early adolescence up to the present can be easily represented by that period of time in which Persephone was adjusting to the Underworld and maturing into its Queen. I’ve been doing a lot of work in therapy that centers around reclaiming my power as a part of the trauma I’ve endured, and I’ve always been drawn to the idea (though not profession) of mentoring those who are less mature in their adjustment to this world.

  I saw Aphrodite in myself during the times when I have felt (in a sense) healthier. I think that, as an ISFP, my Aphrodite presents herself when I become more in touch with my auxiliary Se and am able to use it in conjunction with the rest of my stack. At these times I’m really able to feel those “orgasmic” sensations when hearing a beautiful song, eating a meal I made myself, or even just lying in bed, looking at all the decorations I’ve made or curated for my bedroom. I really *indulge* both in those sensory experiences, and minor details of a story that resonated with me, or even my own emotions.

  I was, of course, hesitant to identify as an Aphrodite, as I am sexually inexperienced—especially in comparison to my peers. I am insecure about my lack of that “magnetic charm” that I always thought came as a part of the Aphrodite package. But I definitely experience that extreme infatuation with certain personalities and ideas that you described in this podcast. I’m very “in the moment,” to the extent that I often have trouble with future planning *and* with remembering how I felt two weeks ago.

  I think a lot of both my Persephone energy and my repressed Aphrodite come from my family relationship, especially with my mother, who I could easily identify as an Artemis/Demeter. It probably isn’t uncommon for daughters to almost viscerally feel the Demeter energy coming from their mothers, but I found myself in shock when listening to the part of Persephone’s story about the pomegranate seeds. I think the really inhibiting thing about having a Demeter mother is the level of appreciation and loyalty that comes with it. I know that, like Demeter, my mom would call upon the gods or walk straight into hell in order to protect me from a perceived danger. But because of this, one of my greatest fears is showing a lack of appreciation. I would definitely lie, and even victimize myself, rather than hurt her directly.

  The Demeter/Persephone interplay is super interesting because one really creates the other. Were it not for Demeter’s protective nature, Persephone may have been wary to the flower’s distractive properties. I may have acquired more “street smarts” and have been able to better judge character at an earlier age. And if Persephone hadn’t been dragged into the underworld, Demeter would not have sunk further into her protective nature. She wouldn’t have killed off the crops for a third of the year. And, if Persephone hadn’t been kidnapped, she would have never matured into a powerful goddess.

  Finally, in terms of Persephone (as both seen in myself and others) I think that a major negative trait that wasn’t addressed in the “Vulnerable Goddesses” episode was the tendency for self-victimization. I know that this has been a major roadblock in my growth, and I’ve seen it absolutely consume a Persephone friend, even taking over her personality in her fear of maturing into the Queen of the Underworld.

  — — — — —

  As a last note, I’ve been thinking about a few celebrities/characters who epitomize some of the feminine archetypes:

  – To me, Molly Weasley strikes a balance between Demeter and Hestia. While her devotion to her role as Mother can be overbearing at times, it’s also an enormous strength. Bellatrix was killed in a fit of pure Demeter energy! Meanwhile, I think that her devotion to keeping house is more than motherly. Every year she knits at least eight or nine sweaters, probably knowing full well that they’re not much appreciated. When she moves into 12 Grimmauld Place for a while, her main priority is cleaning the house and stocking it with food, both for the sake of her friends’ and families’ comfort, but even more for her own comfort, sense of purpose, and peace of mind.

  – Fantine from Les Miserables is also a perfect Demeter, literally giving up both her “pride” and life for the sake of her daughter.

  – Nina from Black Swan is a Persephone, tangled up in a messy relationship with her unhealthy Demeter/Athena mother. Nina is extremely sheltered, living in a little girl’s bedroom and giving into her mother’s every whim. We see throughout the film that she feels very indebted to her mom, eating cake she doesn’t want just to please her. Chances are she isn’t even passionate about being a ballerina, but the Athena in her mother is trying to live vicariously through her. It takes extreme stress and sexual violation in order for Nina to “snap” and be dragged down into the underworld.

  – Lana Del Rey is always the first to come to mind when I think of Aphrodite. Her sensual persona, the dreamy quality of her music, and the muse-like way in which she resonates with those who follow her is all very reminiscent of the alchemical goddess.
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    Sara 2018-08-12

    Reply

    I think Aphrodite’s energy can come out as sexuality but it doesn’t have to in the same way how your Myers Briggs type can appear in a certain manner but type simply indicates the way your brain is wired and not how you behave. But as Aphrodite reigns over love, that seductiveness may come naturally to most people with the Aphrodite energy.

    I think my mother is also an Artemis/Demeter and I agree with what you say on your relationship with your mother. That Demeter energy can come with certain expectations and I can see how it shocks her when any one of my siblings break that expectations of hers, even if they weren’t really accurate in the first place. That causes some tension with some of us in our teenage years, with me when I’m starting to learn more about how I feel about things and where my values stand (I am an ENFP) and with my immediate sister when she decides to take charge in some ways that I think my mother felt like she overstepped her bounds (my sister being an INTJ, and I believe, an Athena/Artemis). It’s interesting that my other sister is passing through her teenage years without almost no big tension although my mother sometimes seem to treat her as an early teen/tween than a seventeen year old. I think she has a more Persephone/Hestia character with some notable Artemis traits.

    Since you mentioned Molly, I believe Hermoine is a very interesting mix of Athena and Artemis. On one hand, she is the thinker of the trio, the strategist and most industrious but she has very, very strong need to protect those whom she feels are vulnerable, and when she is harnessing that energy, she seems to lose her strategic touch and does things which seems ineffective (like refusing to eat at school because they were prepared by the house elves). As she grows though, I believe we can see how those two energies balance each other out.
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  Sophina 2018-07-24

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  Guys, this podcast series is AMAzING! When you mentioned Aphrodite in the previous podcast I didn’t think I’d have much of a connection with her…but then you spoke about the awakening and connection between two people – then the energy and birth of beautiful ideas – and that last bit REALLY struck a cord with me. It’s pulled together different thoughts I’ve held in my head and shaped them into something useful and actionable.

  I believe Persephone is my archetype, but I channel a lot of this ‘orgasm from an idea’, and it made me realise that on the journey to becoming the ‘Queen of the Underworld’, it’s the intensity that’ll get me so far – but I need a partner to share/connect with who pushes me to see it through/generate ideas with after Initially doing the discovery on my own. I could be a badass freelancer with my own projects, but to stop being scared and actually get into action, I should share that birth with someone after. I relalised that’s also how I learn. I start on my own, then get others imput/knowledge/insight.

  So overall yeah thanks for this!
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  Jen 2018-07-24

  Reply

  Wow. I am a bit suprised at the end of the series to say I identified most with the Aphrodite archetype. Before the series, after the intro, I guessed as an INFP that I would identify with Persephone, Hestia and a little bit of Aphrodite. What fascinated me was that the elements of Persephone and Hestia that I was identifying with were more fully imbodied in Aphrodite. Persephone’s creativity and youthfulness I identified with but not the desire to stay young or have things done for me or feeling vulnerable or naive. Naivety would be the ultimate insult to me as I look at things so completely from all sides that if I missed something it would really bother me. So Persephone didn’t fit quite right, though maybe elements of it. The element of Hestia that I was identifying with was the warmth or comfort part of her architype. While strangely not super domestic, people have a tendency to tell me their life stories, come to me in times of crisis and I have had many people comment that they felt completely accepted and not judged with me which is why they open up. I was attributing that to a warm Hestia type thing but now that I’ve listened to the Aphrodite podcast I honestly think that that podcast was more healing for me than knowing my Myers Briggs type.

  Growing up, males seemed to gravitate towards me and females did not. I had mostly guy friends though I was never “one of the guys”. I grew up in a very conservative Christian family and while my parents always made sure I wasn’t wearing revealing clothing, guys from the youth group would often sexually harass and touch me. Not being the Persephone I thought I would identify with, I would smack their hands away and have nothing to do with them and when I would stand up for myself I found myself in trouble with the youth minister telling my parents that I clearly must be teasing these boys for so many of them to try and touch me. I have had to do a lot of healing work to move past a lot of negative feelings towards myself and wondering what I did to attract this kind of attention all the time. There is nothing spectacular about my looks, I think I’m pretty plain Jane but even my husband gets upset by how so many men pay attention to me or make inappropriate comments towards me. I was shamed a lot for this growing up.

  I also really identified with the creative passions, desire for intense one on one relationships, and a steady stream of intensity so the leveling out of feelings stage of relationships is always uncomfortable for me. My husband is a INTJ so the thought of growing old with someone and having a steady, quiet, strong love is extremely appealing to him while the thought is nice, it scares me because I need intensity. I seem, so far to be able to create it in our relationship and when he needs a break from it I throw myself into creative projects to occupy my mind.

  I very much felt the statement that you made Antonia with having the relationship you do with your daughter. I have very intense bursts of attention and love with my kids but when I’m focused on my love or passion I can forget about them and I have to fight that on a daily basis. Even to the extent of alarms and reminders to feed them and get their baths, pick them up from school etc because I can get so lost in what I’m doing or thinking about that I forget myself to eat so I can’t forget to feed them! But I also lavish love on them and love reading to them and rubbing their back and snuggling and telling them how much I love them. My husband jokingly started counting one day how many times I kissed them on the head because it was a ridiculous amount apparently. Other days, if they are off playing in their rooms and one comes out it kind of jolts me like, “oh yeah! I have kids. I hope they are doing okay!” ?. I have to work on Demeter.

  I see my life goal to bring beauty and inspiration to people’s lives. I have a flower business so I have expansive rambling gardens that I tend and a design persona called The Wildflowerist where I try to inspire others with beauty and creativity. I want them to feel love through my flowers, I want my flowers to receive and give love and I hope that they are a gift to others.

  Thank you for this podcast series, I am really going to work on Demeter and Hera energy and trying to view my relationships from an eagle perspective outside of my intense emotions.

  Warmly,
  Jen
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  Danielle 2018-07-24

  Reply

  After listening to all three podcasts, I’ve come away with a more complex understanding of myself and of others.

  From what I can think of now, I seem to primarily be a Persephone archetype that is just starting to enter the queen of the underworld phase. I also identify quite a bit with Athena as well given my independence, drive, and never give up nature. Given that Athena is also the goddess of knowledge, I see a certain intellect to that archetype. And that definitely corresponds with my love of learning and curiosity about a wide range of topics. I have also always been very intellectually mature for me age. I had a childhood like you would expect a Persephone to, but in a sense I was always more hyper aware of problems in the outer world even if I maintained that innocence. At a very young age, I was concerned with that state of affairs, and I had some very undeveloped yet not that unreasonable political opinions as young as 6 or 7 years old. And the thing is, I wasn’t just reflecting my parents beliefs. It was my very young Ne looking for patterns in the outside world and discovering trends. I wasn’t some sort of prodigy at it, but it was either impressive to people or horrifically alarming or just ignored in total. This (and other factors) made me sort of marginalize my dominant function as I got older, which lead to the grips of Si.

  Another part of this that is crucial is my Enneagram of 6 (6w7 sp/so to be more exact). As a 6, I have always been self-doubtful of myself. So, like many 6s I tried to find something more stable on which I could rely. During my growth as a 6, I eventually realized that I could not rely on institutions or ideologies, and I even grew distrustful of them. 6s are called the “skeptics” and I learned that a lot of my skepticism and trouble shooting needed to be used to re-evaluate the structures around me so I did not put too much of myself into anything, whether it be an organization, ideology, personal relationship, or group of people that would end up harming me.

  I also started to tap in to my self-preservation instinct, which is what I naturally prioritize first, but for some reason my mind had lead me to focus more on So. This is probably because I genuinely like people and interacting with them. I do well in group settings as well. While I’ve always been better at recognizing the bad in the world, I’ve really had to almost own it and truly understand what it means in order to keep myself secure and those around me secure in various ways.

  I reached a point where I knew I couldn’t hold on to the innocence of youth anymore. As an ENFP, I tapped into Fi more and adapted and accepted my Ne. I also focused on taking the positive lessons that Si teaches us instead of wallowing around in it as a dark place. This I think might have been easier for me than it is for other ENxPs because Enneagram 6 correlates well with Si, and I think my Enneagram gives me more of a connection to it and/or makes it appear that I have higher levels of Si than I really do on the surface even though it’s absolutely still my inferior.

  I still have a considerabls of that youthful energy, as ENFPs often do. I’m always looking for positive possibilities and the good in people. Yet, I’ve been starting to incorporate a more serious, skeptical, and analytic side. While I can see what is light, I can also see and understand what is dark and the real problems that exist even if it is unpleasant. And I have to be true to myself and follow my own Fi compass even if society pushes me in another direction.

  I also have a very interesting dynamic with the Aphrodite archetype. I am someone who can be quite passionate and inspiring. I help people see the good in themselves and the potential they have for the future.

  However, the more sexual and romantic part is completely lost to me. It’s like I have some of the archetype, but a huge chunk of it is just not there. I’m Sx last, so intimate one on one relationships are absolutely not the thing I prioritize the most. I do enjoy having deep, meaningful relationships. However, I never initiate them. It feels as if the passion about other people I do bring to the table will often mislead people. I’ve come off as flirtatious without even attempting to or realizing it until someone else pointed it out. Couple this with the fact that I’m an aromantic asexual, which means I feel no sexual or romantic attraction to anyone. This causes me to lack any desire for a romantic or sexual relationships. I mostly have an apathy for sex, and I tend to see it in very scientific terms. It took a lot of observing the world around me for me to even begin to grasp the idea of sex as an expression of love and intimacy because I’m so apathetic to the idea of actually having sex. While I find romance to be cute often, when romantic interest and actions are directed at me, it actually makes me cringe inside to varying degrees. It’s like I find romance appealing as long as it’s not directed at me.

  And it’s not as if I have trouble establishing these kinds of pairbond relationships (awkwardness and occasional hermit-like tendencies aside). Albeit, I seem to routinely attract very similar people who are not all that common among the male population (only Fi-dominant males have ever expressed serious interest in me for whatever reason). I could be married right now if I had chosen that path and there is another relationship that I could have pursued more recently. I just stay away from these types of bonds as much as I can because they are not authentic to me, and I think the other person should pursue another relationship where the feelings of attraction will be reciprocated. My apathy makes it so that I’m quite certain I would not be a satisfying romantic and/or sexual partner in the long run. I think people should be able to have satisfying relationships.

  I am an only child, and I never really had any strong connections with my extended family. So when I do become very close with someone, I tend to see them as a surrogate sibling or other relative figure. This also causes a disparity since I feel like there are more people looking for a pairbond mate, and here I am essentially brother figure-zoning people. Sometimes it feels like “Oh, you wanted to get to know me then ask me out on a date? My intentions were to get to know you and have another brother figure. Oops, this is awkward.”

  And I have to accept that’s just the way I am. If people do not like that and want more, I have to just explain how I am, take it or leave it. This is hard because most people don’t understand and/or can’t fathom the experience I have had as an aromantic asexual since we are such an unknown group. I speculate that we are actually larger than the very few studies done claim though, people just don’t understand how what they feel is different.

  Those are just my reflections on the archetypes though.
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  Mona 2018-07-24

  Reply

  Hello guys, I love this series!
  From school I always wanted to be Athena, I found that being smart is great.
  During my life I was able to developed strong Hera energy. I got throung some ups and downs and finally I am happy and proud from my relationship.
  I am starting to take care about my Artemis archetype recently. It shows up by running my own garden and growing food that is environemtal friendly. This is where I can truly relax.
  This podcast let me open to Aphrodite which I can see in myself, my mum and grama very strongly. In my family there was something bad in being attractive woman. Some threatening that comes along and possibility that I can be in dangerous showing this energy.

  There is one question that I need some clarification on, what is actually archetype?
  Is it my animus representation of my perfect partner?

  Good luck! I am already saving money for Profiler Training I would love to be a part of what your do!

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