Podcast – Episode 0237 – Gods In Everyman — The Favorite Son God Archetypes
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In this episode, Joel and Antonia continue a short series talking about the god archetypes that show up for some people. This episode details the favorite son gods in everyman.
In this podcast you’ll find:
- Animas and Anima – Feminine and Masculine Archetypes
- Goddesses in Everywoman by Jean Bolen
- Gods in Everyman by Jean Bolen
- Episode on Vulnerable Goddesses
- Episode on virgin goddesses
- Episode on Alchemical Goddess
- Episode on Gods In Everyman — The Father God Archetypes
- 3 categories of son gods
- Favorite sons
- Rejected sons
- Favorite sons
- All sons of Zeus
- The favored sons are more like Zeus. They looked to him for approval, which won them Zeus’s favor
- Father gods look to themselves for approval – self-referential
- Son gods look to others for approval
- Apollo was the god of the Sun
- Archer, lawgiver, Zeus’s favorite, god of arts
- Apollo’s Ethos: Know thyself; nothing in excess
- Son of Zeus and Leto
- Twin brother of Artemis
- Artemis is born first and helps her mother give birth to her brother, Apollo
- His birth took nine days
- Apollo seems to struggle with a sense of entitlement
- Apollo and Artemis share a lot of characteristics: honored for purity; a tendency for remoteness; they disappear on occasion; they are heady, rational, and competitive.
- Artemis is more independent than Apollo
- Apollo is the recipient of a lot of benefits and acclaim
- Apollo energy is focused on success, creating order, discipline, forward thinking.
- Thoughtful, well crafted, disciplined creativity.
- Yo Yo Ma is an Apollo artist
- Society rewards the Apollo man as thoughtful and creative, who sets clear goals and achieves them.
- Steady, rational
- Looking for approval from a father type figure can be a marker of an Apollo archetype
- An Apollo archetype can start drinking his own kool-aid and get narcissistic, arrogant, or idealistic
- Not all apollos are raised in a context that rewards them, so the narcissism isn’t a guaranteed trait
- He isn’t the prophet, but he makes prophecy available to others
- Ability to orchestrate resource and make bigger things happen
- Apollos need to remember to have modesty and realize that other people bring talents also
- Evan Spiegel – Snapchat billionaire
- Every Apollo struggles with relationships on some level
- Cassandra complex – the ability to see things coming and not be listened to
- Cassandra received the gift of prophecy from Apollo, but when she rejected him he cursed her from ever being heard
- Apollos struggles are usually in the personal realm, not the business realm
- Apollos can feel quite lonely
- Apollo archetypes may struggle with depth and be more extrinsically motivated by trappings
- Apollos can have a cruel streak like Artemis
- Idealism to get things just right
- HBO “Succession” Second-born son Kendle Roy is an Apollo character
- Ramsay Bolton in Game of Thrones is another Apollo character
- Growth for Apollo:
- Make room for Dionysius – sensuality, presence, enjoying life
- Apollo needs to let go of the tools and to do lists and make it more about being than doing
- If Apollo tends toward disconnection, he is going to bring it over to his lovemaking as well
- Apollo precept: Keep the woman under rule
- He needs to let go of that precept and express his inner anima – his natural feminine aspect
- Apollo struggles with modesty and hubris
- He struggles with the desire for receiving full credit for everything
- Apollo needs to make love his motivator
- Hermes is the messenger god
- He is the guide of souls
- He is a good communicator
- He is also a trickster god and tends to travel a lot
- He is the one with the winged shoes
- He can travel freely between mt Olympus and the underworld
- He is quick witted and intelligent
- Very friendly – everyone likes him
- Hermes is the son of Zeus and Maia
- Hermes was into alchemy and would guide others to find spiritual gold
- He carried a staff with two snakes on it representing death and rebirth
- Hermes felt like he was the underdog of Apollo
- Hermes sons could be really bad or really good which shows that the Hermes archetype can appear at both extremes
- Hermes can usually get away with things easily
- Catch Me If You Can (2002) – Leonardo DiCaprio character; Tom Hanks character was an Apollo character
- Hermes can either go down the conman path or the path of the great teacher
- Hermes boys tend to be very precocious, deceptive, and cunning. Always looking for the next thing to explore.
- Such a man may become a jetsetter – traveling salesman, nomadic, etc.
- May tend to take shortcuts or run when things become complicated
- Work is often in communication – coach, teacher, etc.
- Women tend to be attracted to Hermes men
- Hermes archetypes tend to be loners
- Permissive fathers
- Hermes is also a rescuer – kinda like Han Solo – not the reluctant hero but the incidental rescuer
- Hermes archetypes come out as the rescuer of a depressed child’s psychology
- Life is Beautiful (2017)
- He can be above it all
- Hermes won’t stay in a situation longer than he has to.
- He sees what he can change and does what he can to get self and others out of bad situations.
- HBO “Succession” third born son Roman Roy is very Hermes
- Father is Zeus
- Stepmother Hera
- Oldest son Hephaestus
- Second son Apollo
- Third son Hermes
- Daughter Athena
- Hermes challenge is similar to Apollo in that he is a favored son and so all the demons come from within
- He struggles with relationships
- Apollo seems very EJ in his behavior – the Golden Boys
- Hermes are like EPs in the MBTI system – charmers
- Hermes can struggle with loneliness too because they are always on the go and they tend to dance away from attachments
- Very nonjudgmental. Rootless. Detached.
- Builds intimacy over time
- Tethering to Zeus helps him grow, so tethering to some structure that brings allegiance (religion, code of ethics, etc.) would be good for a Hermes archetype
- Hermes is as intrinsically motivated as Apollo is extrinsically motivated
- Hermes needs to find his Aphrodite – the challenge that forces him to stick – can be an internal anima
- Hermes parents tend to be distant
- Hermes needs to remind himself to stay committed
- Hermes path to growth is turning his attention outward and helping other people get in touch with a more spiritual aspect of themselves
- Apollo and Hermes are both successful at what they do
- Things come easy for them
- When challenges come to these archetypes they struggle to adapt
- They need to see challenges as paths for growth, not just irritations they can swat away
- Initial conditions that are too easy can create a sense of entitlement.
- Challenge forges our character.
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I am an ISTJ woman. Listening to the goddess podcasts, I identified with certain elements of Athena, Demeter and Aphrodite, but it is really the god Apollo that resonates the most deeply with me.
Guys! I was really impressed and excited by this podcast!
I’ve enjoyed studying archetypes a bit over at stellarmaze but have always drowned a little in the details that astrology brings on top of the archetypes, and have never quite gotten to the meat of it so much as I did in this single podcast. Can’t wait to listen back to the rest of the series.
Listening to the Hermes stuff I was struck by how helpful it would be for both me as an ENTP and my ESTP friend who I went out to see the Perseid meteor shower with this weekend (actually out past your old stomping grounds in the columbia gorge), and I felt smart and right when you noted the way this archetype feels ExxP to you. haha.
Intrigued by the mention of the value to the Hermes man of external source of authority, e.g. religion–it’s something I’ve been trying to develop more thought on lately but, having abandoned my own childhood religion at 20 I’ve definitely started recognizing the benefits (for me) of finding another one in my thirties. And I don’t mean spirituality, I mean religion.
I used to say “if you need God or religion in order to be a good person, you must not be a very good person.” Then around 30 I started thinking “I’m not a very good person.”
Listening to the goddess podcasts as a female INTJ, I was struggling to find which Goddess archetype resonated with me. After listening to the favorite sons podcast this morning, I feel strongly connected to the Apollo archetype from both strengths and weaknesses perspectives. You were describing his strengths of building systems of systems, the “gift” of prophecy (and enabling that aspect through effectiveness by gifting it to Cassandra); all the way through the weakness of seeing relationships as transactional. Antonia mentioned she thought maybe a strong EJ; interesting thought because ENTJ and INTJ have the same car occupants.
This made me think. I know MBTI is a horizontal model, but do you think that there is a relationship between high functioning/matured MBTI types that begin to make them indistinguishable from certain related counterparts?
Also do you think that there are archetypes are more associated with particular god/goddess archetypes? If you break Persephone into two distinct versions, there are 16 total. It does make sense to me as a Thinker female that I am resonating with a more male god archetype; but that doesn’t exclude me from feeling senses of other archetypes as well.
thanks for your thoughts!
I’m new to the site but loving the podcast. I’m a female ENFP and identified with Aphrodite and Artemis on the female side, and as Hermes on the son god side. In fact, I would almost say I identify most with Hermes–he seems to embody the ENFP personality very well…for me anyways. I’m struggling with setting down roots so I don’t feel lonely but my need to explore is very strong. I’ve never lived in any one city for more than 4 years–though I spent a lot of time moving around San Diego, now I’m moving around the Bay Area. I value the weird, deep conversations I have with people but it never seems to last long before we’re moving on to something else. I can be seen as ‘flirty’ or ‘hard to catch’ but I’m also very loyal and strong and would never willingly hurt anyone. I got the personality development series and thinking about the Intuitive Awakening one to see if I can figure myself out some more and do some growing in these other god energy ways. Thanks for the great info you guys put out there!
So, I read ahead and read the entire book Gods in Everyman. In a previous comment I felt that I identified with Aphrodites. Now thoughninsee that I clearly identify with Hermes, maybe an animas of Aphroditesm or a secondary identification with Dionysus. Key is that no hold none/little judgement on people’s choices and that I both admire and encourage exploration, especially of the physical world and of interpersonal relationships. Intimacy for example is just one way of getting to know and individual. I identify as a male ENTP with a strong traditional religious upbringing that I don’t identify with but deal with daily.