Podcast – Episode 0238 – Gods In Everyman — The Rejected Son God Archetypes

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In this episode, Joel and Antonia continue a short series talking about the god archetypes that show up for some people. This episode details the rejected son gods in everyman.


In this podcast you’ll find:

  • Animus and Anima – Feminine and Masculine Archetypes
  • Goddesses in Everywoman by Jean Bolen
  • Gods in Everyman by Jean Bolen
  • Episode on Vulnerable Goddesses
  • Episode on virgin goddesses
  • Episode on Alchemical Goddess
  • Episode on Gods In Everyman — The Father God Archetypes
  • 3 categories of son gods
  • All sons of Zeus
  • Ares and Hephaestus mirror Poseidon more than Zeus in that they are more emotional and less strategic.
  • Ares and Hephaestus are looking for approval as son gods, so their rejection impacts them whereas Poseidon doesn’t seek external approval, so he isn’t concerned as much about being an emotional man in a thinker world
  • Ares
  • God of War
  • Warrior depicted in full armor
  • Very masculine
  • Least respected of all the Greek gods
  • Romans respected the God of War as Mars
  • Only son of Hera and Zeus
  • Learned the art of dance then transitioned to warrior training.
  • Tense relationship with sister Athena
  • Ares had lots of children and was very protective of them
  • Homer’s depiction of Ares loss in the Trojan War is mostly to blame for Ares reputation
  • Ares was put on trial for killing the son of Poseidon who raped Ares daughter
  • Ares is called The Lover – he never exploited women
  • Zeus hated Ares because of his hot-headed impulsive nature
  • Ares believed in “live and let live” – he wasn’t as vindictive as Poseidon
  • Ares physical impulsiveness is more Extraverted Sensing from a cognitive function viewpoint
  • Physical expressiveness can be distasteful for men in a Zeus-like world
  • Ares identity could die over time if he is forced to be a feeler in thinker clothing
  • He acts like he is not emotional and sensual, but his body betrays him with the clenched jaw or tightened fist
  • This is dangerous to an Ares body which needs to dance and express itself fluidly
  • Depression, regret, fish out of water
  • Archetype: expressive, emotional boy who learns by doing
  • Drugged as kids to fit in and sit still to learn
  • ADHD
  • Impulsive, Spontaneous, kinesthetic
  • If an Ares archetype can be in a context that encourages their physical expressiveness, they will be a lot happier
  • Not an easy kid to raise. He will need a lot of attention and channeling from parents
  • Peer groups are important to an Ares man who will help forge him in his teen years and prevent him from overreaching
  • Ares men are attracted to physical, active jobs. Sitting at a desk would not be the ideal for an Ares man.
  • Soldiering – warrior ethos
  • Athletes – competitive spirit
  • Life can happen to Ares men if they aren’t paying attention
  • Impulsiveness is the Achilles heel of Ares
  • Old Testament Samson was an Ares archetype – Delilah was an Aphrodite character who he became utterly passionate about until she ruined his life.
  • King David from the Bible was also likely an Ares archetype – Warrior king, dancer, lover
  • Jamie Lannister from Game of Thrones is probably also an Ares
  • If Ares men have experienced abuse they can go the other way and become abusers
  • Bro Culture
  • When Athenas surround Ares, he may start to look very misogynistic
  • When Aphrodites surround him, he is very generous with women
  • Ares seeks out physical connection/affection which can be misinterpreted as Bro Culture
  • Ares behavior is more related to a need going unmet rather than some ulterior motive
  • Ares receives a lot of rejection because he doesn’t fit in some cultures
  • 2016 Election: Ares men feeling marginalized by society
  • They voted against Athena and for someone who promised them a return to fundamental values
  • Trump may be Ares
  • Obama was likely an Apollo
  • Challenges Ares struggles with could be work/life balance
  • Temptation towards substance abuse or alcoholism due to a desire to feel intense physical engagement
  • Infidelity. Multiple children with multiple women
  • The more rejected Ares felt as a child, the more likely he is to have impulsive, thoughtless decisions as an adult
  • Ares needs to give himself (or herself) permission to feel the experience and be in his body
  • Expressive
  • Slow down and use kinesthetic awareness in a more present space
  • Stop acting and explore your true essence
  • Ares can get into a more Hermes state of mind and learn better self-expression
  • Not about skill but permission – it is okay to express your feelings
  • Nonviolent Communication
  • Athena was a tough test for Ares because she was so judgmental of him
  • Alternatively, Athena can be the motherly voice of conscience that Ares needs to chill out
  • Athenas need to avoid name calling if they are trying to get through to Ares men
  • Ares changed from being the least respected God in the Greek pantheon to the most respected god in the Roman pantheon due to his ability to slow down, mature, and protect
  • Hephaestus
  • God of the Forge
  • Loner
  • Underworld workshop
  • Clubfoot gives him a hobble
  • Creative genius
  • Born of Hera as a virgin birth
  • Hera is embarrassed by Hephaestus clubfoot, and she rejects him
  • A couple of sea nymphs raise him and teach him his craft
  • Archetype: difficult physical deficiency – either real or perceived
  • Misunderstood, rejected, cheated out of what is his
  • His wife Aphrodite cheated on him repeatedly
  • Subterranean fire – feelings that boiled under the surface
  • He would pine for things that were impossible for him to have so he would channel it toward his creativity
  • Family peacekeeper
  • His relationship with Aphrodite is fascinating
  • She chose Hephaestus even though she was in a long-standing relationship with Ares
  • Hephaestus was smart
  • He could never get any respect, so he sublimated his emotions like Ares
  • Archetype: Intensely introverted man, loner, interested in machines and building things
  • There may be a physical ailment hindering him, or he is the black sheep in his family
  • Arts and crafts help him express
  • He feels like he doesn’t belong anywhere, but he is a hard worker
  • He doesn’t get a lot of attention from women, but women play a significant role in his life.
  • Gay Hephaestus men are often drawn to the beauty of women as an art form but not sexually
  • As Good As It Gets
  • Greg Kinnear – Gay Hephaestus artist
  • Tyrian Lannister in Game of Thrones may be a Hephaestus, to begin with, but evolves thru the show
  • The rejection of their parents makes Hephaestus men nurture oriented
  • HBO “Succession” Oldest son may be Hephaestus
  • Hephaestus has an intense sexual nature to him that he channels back into his work
  • Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill writes a chapter about channeling sexual energy toward productivity
  • It’s not uncommon for Hephaestus men to internalize the perception of brokenness, so they end up turning their art into this perception
  • Your mess is your message
  • Dr. House is a genius surgeon – a loner with a bum leg – very Hephaestus character expressing his brokenness in his genius medical techniques
  • Hephaestus can be quite stubborn  
  • He tends to be in relationships with Aphrodites and Athenas
  • Beauty and alcohol tend to open him up – coax him
  • Hephaestus can be neglectful of his lover when he is making love to his projects
  • He has a few close alliances/friends
  • Aphrodites can be attracted to Hephaestus because of the meeting of craftsmanship and beauty.
  • It was their alliance that birthed art, according to mythology.
  • Hephaestus also falls in love with Athena, but she rejects him because she is a virgin goddess.
  • His semen gave birth to a dynasty of kings when he tried to pair with Athena
  • When Hephaestus combines forces with an Athena woman, it can be a powerful alliance where she helps him get things done and put his art into the world
  • Hephaestus can mistake his subjective interpretation of a situation for reality
  • He can idealize the things he pines for and live in a fantasy world
  • He needs to get more objective info into his life
  • He can unintentionally create an oppressive environment with his idealism and expect the world to behave in a way that matches his aspiration
  • Know Thyself
  • Put attention to the outside world and know others
  • Don’t pre-reject others
  • Self-parenting
  • Women can have Hephaestus as their animus  
  • Self-validate.
  • You don’t have to live with the baggage from the past
  • Don’t let the past color the future. It is part of what forged you.
  • Some people may appear to have an easy ride.
  • Challenges are the things that make us who we are. We set the tone for the rest of the ride.
  • See self as a positive influence.
  • Ares = Protector
  • Hephaestus = Genius
  • Set the tone for the rest of your life and go toward a more positive frame


In this episode Joel and Antonia continue a short series talking about the god archetypes that show up for some people. This episode details the rejected son gods in everyman. #podcast #archetypes

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Showing 14 comments
  • Priscilla

    So I just finished listening to this super interesting episode and I was wondering. Is it possible for a woman to have an animus that has a bit of both archetypes? Because I feel very connected to both Ares and Hephaestus. Any thoughts?

  • .:,

    I’d love to add to fictional examples of Ares Anakin Skywalker (with a bit of Hephaestus because engineering). Hotheaded, physically gifted, cocky, passionate, especially about protecting people and punishing evildoers and unable to give up personal connections. Being knight suitshim, but being jedi not so much. Jedi are very sky gods – pure calm rationality and he has hard time fitting in. Interesting is his romance with Padme, because she is very Athena (Lucas stumbled a lot writing them, especially in EII). Perhaps it could be said, that in EII, when with Anakin on Naboo, he brings out Aphrodite in her and in EIII she gives me impression of Persephone. Obi-wan looks like Apollo – so proper and sticks to being faithful subordinate and doesn’t really manage to be father figure, he plays older brother much better and he and Anakin can be great team. Qui-gon could be Poseidon – doesn’t give a damn about approval and has his own way of doing things, Living Force and stuff and chances are he could have been a better mentor for Anakin. What in hell and heaven is Palpatine/Sidious? Wicked Zeus, because that guy was heartless politic and manipulator, or wicked Poseidon, because he was darksider (rage and hate and ambition) and manipulator?

  • Tim

    I was listening to this very interesting series waiting to find some of the archetypes that I would resonate with. I’m an INTP, so I figured it would be one of the more cerebral detached types, but I was blown away by how much every detail of the Ares type hit home for me. I feel like the only real intimacy I have sometimes is when I’m with a group of guys doing something physically challenging like crossfit or while working as a wildland firefighter. Maybe it’s the 3 year old, ex Feeling, finding small ways to connect in a less abstract way.

    The theme of rejection runs nicely through INTPs and Ares as well.
    Pretty Neato

  • Taneli

    Hey Antonia. The Rush (great band 🙂) way of pronouncing Dionisis is closer to the Greek pronunciation than the one used predominantly in the podcast.

    Great series btw. Sparked some insights about myself and gave me some new ways to see myself and appreciate others.

  • S.P.D.E.H. Artemis

    Hi Antonia and Joel, I have a question concerning a sister of mine whose animus I believe is an Ares. So I have two sisters, I am the eldest and my archetype is Artemis with either Hades or Hephaestus as my animus, I think. The next sister (in the birth order) I believe has an archetype of Persephone with her animus as Ares. My third has (of course as always: I believe, I’m not an expert at this of course) an archetype of Athena and an animus of Zeus (or Poseidon, or both). When we were little my two younger sisters constantly fought. My Athena sister constantly walked over the top of my Persephone sister, and as an Artemis archetype I always tried to protect my Persephone sister from my Athena/Zeus sister, but I wasn’t always there. So for a very long time my Persephone sister bent under the reign of my Athena sister and ran to me for protection, but finally she became queen of the underworld and bucked my Athena sister off her back.

    Now my Persephone sister is the only feeler in our family, and the rest of my family is composed of all thinkers. My dad is a definite Zeus/Poseidon/Hades, and an ISTJ though he acts more like a Zeus with us. My mom is an ENTP ( I don’t really know which archetype she is), and of course there’s my other sister and I who are INTP (me) and ESTJ (sis).

    So here’s where Ares comes in: I believe that my Persephone sister has an Ares animus, since she is the only feeler in a family of thinkers. Her love-language is touch, she is very active and likes to blow through life, and she really needs someone to sympathize, but we all just try to solve her problems for her. So all her life she has been in the proverbial jar and has had to suppress her emotions. So finally she had had enough, and broke out of the jar, but she did not have a girl “bro culture” to lean on and she was often rejected by the rest of us, because I have trouble with physical affection, though I am better now, and my other sister copied me in that regard, and my dad is bad at getting close to people, and my mom is close at times, and not at other times, and is also very bad at sympathizing. In a lot of ways we, as Antonia has said in other podcasts, knocked the taco out of her hands. The ways she showed love we have often either rejected and or taken advantage of, because we did not understand how she showed love and we did not understand (at least some of us) that that was her showing love.

    So now this sister stomps around like an Ares trying to prove that people can’t oppress her and tell her what to do. I never ask her for favors, because she never grants them, just to prove that she can not be told what to do anymore. She has become very defensive now and she will not listen to any advise whatsoever. Lately my mom has been having trouble with her because she keeps making bad decisions (she is now 18) and my mom tries to advise and warn her, but she won’t listen to my mom. So I was wondering what we can do about it, how exactly can we help her and make her feel more loved. Unfortunately with her and I, we often knock the tacos out of each others’ hands because the way I communicate love, by telling her the truth and helping her to solve her problems, she does not appreciate, and I have some trouble with physical affection, and when she becomes very emotive and complains to me, I become uncomfortable and result to analyzing the situation. The same kind of goes with my other family members, except I get uncomfortable, they just kind of get irritated and scoff at her. So my question is how do I and my family aid her in becoming a more healthy Ares? How do we help her become more of the protector and the caretaker instead of the impulsive, reactive, aggressive war god? She won’t listen to us most of the time, so how do we gain her trust, and allow her to express herself healthfully? She is actually extremely bad at communication, so how do we act as Hermes and help her to communicate, and in turn to listen? Thanks.

  • Hannu

    Thanks for the goddesses and gods -series! The episodes were really interesting. I think I’ve now listened through all the episodes concerning these archetypes. I resonated the most with hephaestus and a little with Apollo (eg. interest in mathematical beauty). For Myers-Briggs I’ve tested out as an INFP but your consultant found me to be an INTJ. I think both of these types were mentioned in this podcast.

    Interestingly there were some similarities or coincidences: I’ve studied jewelry design and I interested in programming (kind of automatons), I have some really good woman friends and I get about equally along with women than with men (when I don’t have to be romantic), in the past I had tremendous difficulty in romantic relationships, I’m more interested in ideas than in people and there were more.

    I don’t feel I’ve was exactly rejected as a child but as my parents got separated when I was about two I think this has affected me in some way. For example I later missed my father occasionally. When I was around 10 – 12 years of age my mother got together with a man who was occasionally unfair or dishonest towards me. So, maybe his attitude on me can be seen as resembling Zeus’ way of treating Hephaestus.

    Considering the father god -episode I did relate a bit more with Hades than with the other two. After listening to the Rejected sons -episode I’ve started to think that maybe it has something to do with me being an INTJ rather than INFP. What do you think? To me the Hades represents my tendency to imagine conversations with other people. I remember doing this already when I was a child. This may have helped me to steer the conversations in directions I want them to go (eg. away from conflict) but I think that at least as often the conversations never actually happen. I’m planning on re-listening to the father gods -episode to find out what were the benefits of and the things to learn for the Hades archetype.

    Thank you for reminding me that I must remember to come out from my working chamber to love and tend my family. I’d managed to figure out this to be a weak spot for me but it was good to be reminded about it.

    Do you think forgetting to keep in touch with close people has more to do with Aphrodite as anima or is it part of Hephaestus’ own trait of wanting to concentrate on creating things?

    At the moment my goal is to find a point of leverage so that I don’t have to live in the ‘life as a challenge’ mentality any more.

  • Jen

    I believe that my husband expresses the Hephaestus archetype and I am a Aphrodite/Persephone archetype. One thing I find interesting is that he was rejected by his Dad but not both parents- his mother feels responsible for his wound (serious chronic autoimmune illness) and is an absolute extreme Demeter archetype. This fits perfectly into what you described with the female roles in his life and his being rejected and having a wound of some sort. He often expresses that he feels passionate love for me but wishes I played the mothering role with him that his mom does like you mentioned Hephaestus looking for a mother and lover in one.

    This seems silly to me. I was in codependent relationship after codependent relationship and want a even footed partnership with someone not someone to take care of. Make each other happy and show love, absolutely! I’m not detached, but I feel like adults can for the most part take care of themselves and just do life together. Try to do little things for each other to make each other’s day better or make that person smile but I don’t want to play a servant role.

    When he gets absorbed in a project, I do my own thing. We both like projects and sometimes they align and we do them together and sometimes we have our own things. He builds clocks, he farms, and he is a musician. I garden and teach English composition and have a flower design buisiness. I’m fascinated with the brain and research brain functions and personality types, he is fascinated with history and we are both writers.

    We are kind of fire or ice with each other. Completely passionate and connected or our attention is on our projects.

    As parents, he would like me to be a Demeter like his mom but I am an Aphrodite/Persephone. I have strong attachment to my kids and create an imaginative, creative, non judge mental atmosphere where they can express themselves as individuals and I am a good encourager of their pursuits but I don’t try to micromanage their lives which I think he sees as being indifferent. Sometimes I think he sees the kids from that craftsman mindset and tries to mold them and shape them into his predetermined roles. So that may be our biggest area of tension.

    This podcast and the Aphrodite podcast were extremely helpful for me in relation to growth and greater understanding.

  • Matthew

    Hi, Joel and Antonia! I have a question about the nature of cognitive functions and their transitioning. Can we consciously choose specific functions in our stack to use and necessarily ignore the others, or do we naturally/subconsciously transition, in the order of our functions, into the cognitive functions we want to focus on the most? For example, with an ENTP caught in their dominant-tertiary loop, do they consciously choose to ignore their Ti and use their Ne-Fe? Or is it that, even in their Ne-Fe loop, there was some subconscious use of the Ti function to justify the Ne-Fe loop and then some subconscious use of Si to further reinforce the Ne-Fe loop? Thanks!

  • JJ McCoen

    I’m a fairly new listener to your podcast and absolutely loved this series. I identify as strongly a Artemis type with some Persephone as well. And a combo of a Hephaestus and Dionysus as animus.

  • INTJ

    Its not an archetype if its only found in Greek mythology.

    Anyway, the god/godess in everyone is a cute idea nothing more.

    • Antonia Dodge

      It’s kind of the point that these archetypes aren’t just found in Greek mythology, but that they were in some ways codified through deification.

      Stop being so stuffy. Look for application of concepts, not simply whether or not they can be torn down.


  • pat eddishaw

    Antonia’s comments about Ares Bro Culture and the possibility of those men actually being supportive of women spoke to me in a major way.
    Back in the 70’s, when I was in my 30’s, I pushed my way into a major career move by leaving my technical Corporate IT position for a Scheduler job in the company factory – the first and only female manager in a 3,000 person facility.
    All the Corporate management men tried to stop me from making what they considered a stupidly poor decision. I had to threaten to quit before they reluctantly let me go. The one man working to make the move happen was the Production Manager in the factory who was explicitly trying to prove that a woman could make it in a very physical all male environment. He was a classic Ares personality – Italian, impulsive, karate black belt – it was even his astrological sign lol.
    The factory was also classic bro culture – new guys had to prove themselves with arm wrestling competitions. My challenge was to find a way to pick a fight, and demonstrate that I could put up a good fight, by some other means since I obviously would not win an arm wrestling competition. Once I did that I was fully accepted into the culture, at least in a way, though I was clearly not a man and thus “different”.
    Within a year, with the quiet maneuvering of the Production Manager, now my boss, I created a completely new factory function and was suddenly managing a 200 person department. That Ares Production Manager was the only true mentor I ever had in my career and I pretty much owe it all to him.
    The ironic side to all of this is that he and I were both single at the time and had an pretty intense sexual attraction to each other. Because we talked about it openly after he became my boss, we succeeded in not damaging our work environment with a personal relationship. Nor did I ever feel “awkward” having him as my boss. Corporate Management, on the other hand, was so clueless and trying so hard to be politically correct that they ended up firing their “star performer” because he was screwing around with other women in the factory. He was, in truth, one of the least misogynistic men I have ever known.

    Everything I ever needed to be a successful manager in a male dominated world – both the good and the absurd -I learned in those short three years in the factory. Btw, I’m an Artemis and a Scorpio. And yes, I admit I still occasionally google that old manager even though we lost contact with each other years ago. Life moves on.

  • Gordana

    Another excellent podcast, thank you! You might want to correct the notes, though. The Greek god Ares is spelled ArEs, not ArIEs. No relation to the astrological sign 🙂

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