Podcast – Episode 0257 – How Judging Polarities Influence Your Personality
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In this episode, Joel and Antonia continue to dive into deep personality type content around the cognitive function polarities, what they are, why they are important, and how they influence your personality. On the last episode they talked about the perceiving polarities. In this “part two” episode Joel & Antonia discuss the Judging Polarities.
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In the interest of clean data, I’d like to point out that what numbers we have (assuming, as Antonia pointed out, that people are reporting their type correctly) actually indicate that Te-Fi is slightly more common than Fe-Ti. I believe the data most people in the type community use come from the edition of the MBTI manual published between 1972-2002, in which case, adding up the percentages of the individual types gives ~54% for Te-Fi versus ~46% for Fe-Ti. According the 4th ed. MBTI manual published in 2019, the gap has widened a bit in recent years to ~56% for Te-Fi and ~43% for Fe-Ti. (The gap between the perceiving polarities has narrowed slightly, but the percentages are still over 60% for Si-Ne and under 40% for Ni-Se.)
What I found really interesting were the unexpected big changes in the percentages of the sixteen types between ’02 and ’19. SFJs apparently no longer claim the biggest share of the population (and this is a global sample, FYI)–ISFJ dropped from the #1 spot to #4, and ESFJ dropped from #2 to #10! Their former spots are now occupied by ISTJ at #1 and ISTP at #2. Perhaps the women who came of age after the millennium didn’t favor Fe as heavily as the previous generation?
And as an INFJ who got sick of that rare-and-special-overromanticized-unicorn rep very quickly, I’m excited that my type is now only the third rarest–now ENTJs get to be the unicorns! (Though I somehow doubt that anyone will be brave enough to call an ENTJ a unicorn to their face :P.) If anyone else is interested in the new numbers, I first heard about them on the Psychology Junkie site: https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2019/11/15/how-rare-is-your-myers-briggs-personality-type/
Hey Antonia,
Hi Joel,
I just wanted to share another comment like I did in the Percieving polarity podcast. Something that really clicked for me was when Antonia mentioned that the polarity that you will go between in a more balanced way is probably the polarity that lies in your co-piolet and ten year old.
I am pretty sure I have that Ni Se in either co pilot or ten year old, since it feels like I can access both in short bursts, either being impulsive or analytical.
Still a bit confused on the Judging polarities, they seem less clear to me. I think I am usually putting myself in groups with a dominant Fe Ti polarity because I always appreciate when the emotions go up up up and people are all relaxed and having good time, but I will still at times isolate myself to sift through personality (MBTI and such) articles to better see the types and how everything relates. In these times I feel like I am using Ti or Ni. both seem similar to me.
What I am doing is looking at different sources of information and comparing and contrasting them against each other. I am trying to find my accurate type and others accurate types to get a clear static picture of how it is all connected. The information is constantly changing my mind on my type and other peoples types depending on what I am relating it too in my mind. It feels like my perceptions just never stand still to solidify them into a working system, which is the goal.
Wondering if that sounds like Ti or Ni or maybe a mx of the two, or maybe even Fi since I am changing my identity with new pieces of information about how personality and relationships work.
As I listened to this I was wondering if it would be right to think of the Te – Fi polarity as results vs intension?
I am an ENTJ and have noticed that its easier for me to understand and interact with others when I identify their intensions. Then I can jugde something not just by the result (which I tend to do), but by the conection between intent and result. “Did you achieve what you set out to do?” And I feel that my Fi primarily is bugging me about meaning, not my feelings. “Why do I do what I do?” Like: What is the goal? On a more value-based level.
Is this an oversimplyfing way of thinking about it or is it at all helpfull?
Another great podcast! So illuminating and insightful – I’m learning so much! Getting to grips with the Fi/Te polarity has helped me to understand why myself (INFP) and my INTJ husband (despite our obvious challenges) work so well together on some aspects. After years of graduate level study and work as a leader in healthcare I have over time balanced my Fi/Te and he and I can really get into the zone talking about work and the things we need to get done. For him I bring a more human/ emotional element to the table and he helps me see the bigger picture and the wider implications of my decisions. I hadn’t fully understood what was going on under the bonnet until now and very much enjoyed listening to this episode and reflecting on this information. Thank you.
I’ve really been enjoying your podcasts. Question- As an individual ages do the polarities shift in their percentages of the whole? Example: I’m an Fe-Ti and am turning 40 this year. I feel my Ti is getting stronger with age. I’ve shifted some major internal patterns, questioned formerly accepted ideas and have become more logical. Do you think this is normal? Do we continue to grow in depth in the functional stack?
Keep it up!
Maybe my lack of comprehension is solely due to biased experience with the alternative polarity, but Ti Fe makes no sense to me. And I don’t mean to suggest that the polarity is illogical and without sense, but very specifically, I cannot wrap my head around it. Ti especially. No matter how much I hear or read about it, I just can’t identify it. I imagine this is because it’s my eighth function and so similar in structure to my dominant Fi while at the same time valuing different data and coming to different conclusions with that structure that it’s hard for me to reconcile a function simultaneously so intrinsically similar and vastly different. I’m not sure. I just don’t get it. I start to think I understand it, and then I start feeling like I’m using it – but people tell me it’s probably Te – and realize I must not have an accurate enough understanding. It is amusing to me that Joel pointed out his contribution of examples to the podcasts, because I find myself in desperate need of examples. When I’m with people who use Ti, how can I see in the outer world some sign of that function being in use? I suppose I’m focused on output because that’s what Fi Te likes, but also because I think introverted functions are so process oriented already, I have a hard time being able to see a function operating within someone’s head. I think you guys are likely explaining it as well as it can be explained, but I literally just don’t get Ti and it’s so frustrating to me. Most of my family identifies as FJs, so I’d like to be able to recognize this function and understand what’s happening for them. I don’t see it, and I thought to myself maybe they are mistyped (still totally possible. Most all of them insist they are INFJ which probability just doesn’t support), but it seems equally likely that I have no idea what to look for. How is Ti actually applied? What does clean data lead to? What’s that look like day in and day out? Where’s the output? I am an utterly lost INFP.
The only way I could truly come to understand Fi was to build relationships with people who use it as their dominant or auxiliary function. I think you’ll be able to experience all the subtle nuanced differences between Fi and Ti by spending time with TP personalities, not FJs using it as a tertiary or inferior function. And once you ‘get’ Ti by hanging out with TPs, I suspect THEN you’ll se how the FJs in your family are using their Ti as a less sophisticated function.
-A-
I’m a TP, and personally I understand a lot of FPs not only through those I personally know, but by studying the lives of real famous people, literature and even through analyzing modern films.
For example, if you look for the videos on the analysis of films, “Cher, Master of the Argument,” or “Legally Blonde : Elle Woods — Philosophy of the Blonde,” you would find two examples of EFPs with very high Te. Cher, who in my opinion, is a quirky ENFP, tends to be rather seen as a dumb party girl, when she is actually very intelligent. She uses her formal Te credibility logic to persuade all kinds of people well, though emotional persuasion is her best persuasion skill. Her Fi intelligence allows her knowledge of all kinds of emotional arts with depth, particularly in literature, and her Te logic seems to be strengthened by her father’s influence, a skilled lawyer.
Ti logic on the other hand is less created by formal agreements between people in law, government or business though, but with more of the type of logic gained through personal observation and daily life on your own. If you see the movie, you’d notice Cher is really bad at expressing the type of logic that isn’t gathered from other people’s agreement, and so can’t be flexible to creating new logical conclusions. This is why she gets such a bad score in a lot of persuasion essays in school, and how her teacher comments on how unstructured her logic is, because Ti often works to simplify logical conclusions making it a good function to make people easily understand logical things.
On the other hand, Te looks for more complexity, with trying to look for more and more ways to implement something. She has the logic well planted in her brain, she just does not know how to explain the reasonings behind her conclusions. Ti often asks, “Why?” Te often asks, “How?” This creates a dynamic where she can’t really explain well the reasons behind why she wants something implemented, considering it’s her Fi Authenticity function that drives more emotional value functions to implement things. When Te works to persuade, they often do so by crediting other people’s experience, often experts in a subject. That, or they show you that it can be done, rather than verbally explaining the arguments behind it, which can be done in a way with Fe, that expresses reasonable arguments in an emotional charismatic way. Think a lot of stand up comedy shows have a lot of TPs reasoning arguments in a way that makes people laugh in the irony of all kinds of situations.
Elle Woods, seems to be more of an ESFP, rather than having all the random ideas Cher has with Ne, Elle seems to find a lot of things to do with Se. Not to mention that Se has a skill in seeing body language well, in contrast to ENFJs who tell people’s emotions less by what they physically see, but by what their gut feeling tells them, or the patterns of habits they have in daily life that can help predict things in the future. Se also has a stronger love for expressing one’s self through physical appearance, and Elle often is treated as “dumb” because attention to appearance is associated with lack of intelligence. She goes into law school, but is often seen as naive due to her Fi idealism of working to defend law by focusing on who the real culprit is, rather than focusing on success or winning the case. In the end, she wins her first case by believing deeply in the innocence of her own client, due to both her Se and Te working to discover facts about the case by using Se to notice really small physical details that reveal facts about the case, then connecting those facts to Te law arguments. An ESTP lawyer would likely be able to do a similar with Se, but with Ti, also have a special ability to solve cases by realizing how the logic of a supposed genuine witness contradicts itself. Considering Ti often asks, “Why?” than “How?” an ESTP lawyer with strong Fe can combine Ti and Fe to trace the logical steps to understand the why behind a person’s deeper motivations as well. After all, Ti Accuracy is able to bring Fe Harmony by understanding whether a person’s claims are accurate or not. Elle’s Te Effectiveness on the other hand, often emphasized physical evidence more, and with Se was able to figure things out through studying key physical evidence.
Hello I’m curious if it matters where this polarity shows up in your car model? I noticed that for some it sits in their co pilot and 10 year old, and for others the polarity is in their driver and 3 year old.
I just had an observation about the Te-Fi polarity. I have a friend who is an INTJ. From a very early age he was determined to work hard so that he could be in control of his life and not be at the mercy of others. My sister, who is an INFP, suffers from chronic fatigue and often feels very anxious that she is not in control of her situation. Both are concerned about being in control, but one works hard to ensure that he is in control, while the other doesn’t believe there is anything she can do to take control. It seems that control is a big part of the conversation going on in this polarity.
This does not, however, mean that the Fe-Ti polarity is not interested in control, but it seems that when they seek control, it is for external reasons that have more to do with the well-being of others than oneself. I have an ENFJ friend that feels that she is responsible to take control of a situation to ensure that everyone is happy and getting along. In my own case, I’m an ENTP, and I often try to take control of a situation if I feel that I am the most competent person to handle it. My goal is for things to be done right, and in many cases, I don’t trust others to do it as well as I can.
You mentioned and I find it to be so helpful that your polarities of Te and Ti round out your podcast with bringing examples and application and bringing clarification and description. How do you honor both polarities in your relationship? Do they essentially run parallel and you leave time and space for the other to work on needed balance? Or are there ways they can help each other in the balance finding?
For me, personally, I find a lot of the difficulties I have had in communicating often end up relating to these two polarities. It is much easier for me to appeal to Fi and Te as an ENFP. I feel that I usually just don’t “get” Fe and Ti when the functions are in play in certain scenarios.
For instance, I was talking to my ESFJ mom last month about life, and she mentioned how a relative (who I suspect is a very immature, unhealthy ESFJ) was trying to stir up a fight by using Facebook as a platform to emphasize how she thought of getting an Christmas decorations for an elderly relative when other family members such as my mom didn’t. My mom showed me the posts (since I have effectively estranged myself from this particular relative who I refuse to speak to or even give a slight opportunity to harass me). And I just thought, “Okay. Maybe this is to stir up drama. But this is the stupidest method to start a conflict that I have ever seen in my life. Who even thinks of this?” Thinking about it, it may have had to deal with the desire for feedback and sort of gratification that this relative did such a good thing.
Perhaps, my Fi and Te just took the perspective of, “So what? You took a senior citizen to buy Christmas decorations. Big deal. That’s a minor good compared to all of the vile things you have said and done, and it doesn’t even start to override anything.” The aforementioned actions also heavily violated my Fi principles, so that’s probably a big part of it.
I also see the odd relationship between the two polarities frequently when I talk to my ISTP dad about an issue. He’s very much focused on the specific meanings of what is said. Sometimes, I might confuse the meaning, use a word in a figurative sense but fail to convey that, or send multiple conflicting messages. Even if he agrees with what I’m saying, he always asks me what I mean and prompts me to clarify and use more accurate language. It can be maddening sometimes, but I really appreciate it since it helps me to communicate more clearly.
I had to laugh at the comment about TPs being dicks. Of course, that is way too general. But I think Ti has the potential to be seriously abrasive when not used well. I think that is where the stereotype comes from.
Then again, all of the functions can have a rather abrasive side. For me, my Fi once emerged in an unhealthy light by manefesting as a sense of moral superiority and self-righteous indignation. I have seriously in portions of my life related to the scene of Scar in the Lion King saying “I’m surrounded by idiots.” Just replace idiots with “terrible people” or “jerks.” Thinking back on it, that is probably the reason I had trouble making and keeping friends in my early adolescence. I also had some severely screwed up mental programming and paradigms around it—most of which was subliminally and/or unintentionally instilled in me.
Interestingly, the only time I can relate to the notion that a person is angered by something that reflects negatively on themself is involved in how I absolutely detest when someone makes claims of superiority or when I am accused of thinking I’m superior. I really hate that I still admittedly have that streak buried in my mind. I tend to flip to that mind-frame in brief moments under stress. Holistically, I am adamant that I am no better or worse than anyone else. I am just another human being with both positive and negative qualities. But, my gut reaction definitely can reflect that self-righteous streak.
As an infj? I’m focusing more on what my body needs ie working out and I really relate to trusting the group dynamic but putting myself down when it wasn’t matching my feelings. Everything else flew right over my head but in time it will sink in. I was reading a debunking article on mtbi. The guy was extremely jealous of Jung. They will give a PhD to any one now a days. Thanks doc. Science is proving what already exists not stroking your ego. Try going outside the box once in a while.
Hi,
I would be very grateful if you could attempt to clear up an apparent contradiction, which may just be a paradox but until this is clarified to me just sounds confused.
If Fi is about individual experience, how can it also be about ‘universal’ experience? I actually believe that one of the number one ‘sins’ people commit is to assume that other people will experience things like they do, and disregard others experience that differs as invalid. This is basic egocentricity and the cause of much human suffering. I know what it’s like to experience something commonplace like no one else I have ever heard about as a horrible experience, and I can tell you how painful this can be as I felt invalidated in my feelings until I saw a psychotherapist.
I also don’t agree with a statement in your book about Art (in the INFP section) “The Foundation of Art is the expression of universal human experiences”. I actually believe if anything that it is even more important to express minority (emotional or physical) experiences because these are the ones that are most marginalised by others and thus need defending the most, though I would also agree that universal or majority emotional experiences can be universally repressed, so can be just as marginalised in their own way.
I will be very grateful if you would attempt to provide some clarity here, as I think this is a very important subject.
This concept comes from a very famous Carl Roger’s quote: “What is most personal is most universal.” It’s the concept that if you understand something that is deeply personal to you, you are touching upon the most human aspects of yourself thus making it the most human aspects of all humans.
Each individual will experience things unique to them (in nuance), but will approximate how others are experiencing it enough to trigger their own relationship to that emotion or style of event.
Fi/Authenticity can feel invalidated, not when people don’t understand their emotion, but when they communicate that stopping production long enough to fully process the emotion isn’t of value. That’s often communicated as “it doesn’t matter,” or “why would you feel that way?” WHY would you feel that way is a communication misnomer. The actual message is – why would you take the time and effort to search yourself to understand the full cocktail of emotions? The same people who make these statements will often be brought to their knees when an emotionally evocative situation overwhelms them, and they have no skills to process that same cocktail.
Fi/Authenticity will recognize the nuance of difference between its own emotion and others, but sophisticated Fi also recognizes that communicating those emotions and getting an approximation in other person (often a result of great art) is sufficient. Which is why Fi doesn’t want understanding, it’s wants validation.
Hope that gets you started on sussing out the concept for your own understanding.
-A-
Thanks for responding, but I have to strongly disagree that this is just about ‘nuance’.
People can respond very differently in the same situation because they are coming from a very different emotional or historical context. I have often heard people say things along the lines of ‘well it didn’t bother me (insinuation: so why would it bother you?). The fact that people have very different likes and dislikes also demonstrates we are often experiencing things very differently.
If you’re saying that people will respond similarly to the same situation if they were experiencing it from a similar emotional context, then I can agree that is likely to be true, but it isn’t actually clear to me this is what you meant.
I realise we might be talking at cross purposes, so can only hope this is the case but nevertheless this remains a big confusing hole in my understanding of Fi.
I think it’s a bad idea to throw (apparent) contradictions into podcasts or books without contextualizing them, otherwise it just creates unnecessary confusion. I’m sorry if I’m sounding negative – I actually enjoy your podcasts, despite remaining very frustrated that none of these types are really resonating with me.
Hi Justine- I’ve found your comments really interesting and understand the frustration. As a dominant Fi user, I can say that what is confusing to you resonates perfectly with me. I would guess that the disconnect for you is perhaps that Fi perhaps either isn’t in your ‘stack’, or else is low down and you are possibly a ‘thinker’ in the system. Antonia’s explanation put words beautifully to what can be a hard function to articulate as it is often not felt in words and isn’t logic based by nature. I hope this helps you.
Thanks for responding I appreciate it.
Hi Helen,
I’m actually responding to your comment further down, but cannot respond from there – I have considered INTJ and someone I was once friendly with in a typology forum was convinced I was Ni-leading. I’ve never been convinced that I am intuitive enough to be Ni-leading, but I am super-interested in ‘hidden’ patterns, I just don’t know that I’m that good at spotting them myself. I think over my lifetime I’ve observed patterns gradually emerge, so have got more intuitive with age/experience. It is possible that descriptions over-estimate INJs abilities to the point they assume they are all a genius, which I personally doubt.
I wonder if this is an example of the difference between the emotional experiences of Fe and Fi. Your question seems to be very much about having similar emotional reactions to a given situation, which, as you have noted, doesn’t always happen. This sounds like a Fe way to process: I’ll calibrate my emotions based on how others are feeling in this situation. If you’re looking for emotional resonance it’s distressing when others aren’t reacting the same way.
To an Fi user, emotions are understood independent of situations and of how others are reacting. It doesn’t matter so much that others are reacting differently to the same situation. It’s the emotions themselves that the Fi user connects to, however they might have come about. As an INFP, I understand and empathize with your confusion, because I have also been confused. It doesn’t matter that what confuses you does not confuse me, or that what saddens you does not sadden me. I see your emotion and respond with empathy because I too have had that emotion. I know what it looks like and feels like in myself so I figure that your emotion may look and feel similar to you. My understanding may nothing to do with my own reaction to the situation that you are reacting to. For example, I can comfort the fear of a small child frightened by a clown, not because I am also scared of clowns but because I recognize and understand the experience of being scared.
Thanks. I don’t ‘calibrate my emotions based on how others are feeling in this situation’ though – I don’t think I find it easy to alter my emotions period, including the process of ‘numbing out’ emotions, which I have actively observed happening even when I didn’t want it to, as another part of me believed it was necessary. I am big on the concept of there being no singular person inside one mind and we are all our own ‘society’ of people encapsulated in one being.
I do think I have often synched my mannerisms with those of others, particularly if I like them. It could be Fe, but I also have to consider that I still have a relatively weak sense of identity and I am thus still ‘experimenting’ with identity, which I often do in fantasy as well.
I love this Jen. As an ISFP I am always grateful to INFP’s for putting words to Fi in a way I can never seem to. The Ne/Si seems to be able to articulate it much more effectively than Se/Ni. Thank you. Also, Justine I am wondering if you have ever considered INTJ for your type? It is only an instinct but your comments are reminding me of some INTJ’s in my life and conversations I have had with them.
Hi Helen,
I have considered INTJ and someone I was once friendly with in a typology forum was convinced I was Ni-leading. I’ve never been convinced that I am intuitive enough to be Ni-leading, but I am super-interested in ‘hidden’ patterns, I just don’t know that I’m that good at spotting them myself. I think over my lifetime I’ve observed patterns gradually emerge, so have got more intuitive with age/experience. It is possible that descriptions over-estimate INJs abilities to the point they assume they are all a genius, which I personally doubt.
I use this polarity EVERY DAY at work, but what I like is that I have found a way for Te to fuel Fi. At work I use Te (I am a Supervisor) but I essentially use it to help Fi. I use it in strict accordance to help people get more out of their work. It is very tiring but I have found meaning in an overall irrelevant place. I want people to take pride in themselves and have their contributions recognized without just going up and saying “Thanks”. So I take time to understand people and obviously I try to type them, and I use Te for putting people in the “right” places, places where they’d be most happy and most efficient. I fight very hard for all my employees and managers when I perceive them as being overlooked. I absolutely resonated with Joel when he said how seasoning of Te to Fi can be used to get things in the outside world accomplished for other peoples problems and what other people are caring about. etc. I love that part of my job and I have found meaning in my job with the “seasoning” of my polarity. Oh I am an INFP btw.
My brother is an ENFJ, and I am an INFJ. He struggles with understanding himself, and I can give him some objectivity. Our Mom was a narcissist, and our Dad is a very passive but loving parent. I have always wondered why that one function made us so different and how these differences made vastly different relationships with our parents. Some of the explanations you gave were a bit confusing while I was thinking about the family dynamics so I will listen again. (Southerners talk slower and think slower. It is hot down here. LOL) After listening to your descriptions, it is now more apparent why our ways clash often. But I will do anything to please him. As an overprotected INFJ child of a narcissistic mother, I was codependent from birth! She tested several times with different results every time…maybe that is a narcissist at play. Thank you for helping me understand myself along with my journey to recovery. Perhaps I won’t be a hermit all of my life.
I am probably an ENTP. How I see Fe and Ti working together in my experience is that I weigh whether a truth is worth risking the harmony of the group (or a relationship) and then once I have determined that the truth is important enough to communicate, I try to communicate it in a way that gets my point across without rocking the boat too much. I try to get other peoples reactions and refine my thinking and/or my communication of the idea.
One thing I noticed is that who I communicate my ideas to matters. If someone does not trust my thought processes, they will often push back harder and seek flaws in my thinking which can send my Fe into a panic and cause me react emotionally or manipulatively, but if I communicate my ideas to someone who does have some level of trust for my thought process, then I can get helpful feedback that doesn’t scare my Fe 10-year-old.
I could not resonate more. I very strongly feel the need to present my feeling in an artistic form of expression. I loce building and creating things. But am constantly trying to figure out how to make it happen on a scale where it could actually bennifit others, not just to fill some personal need. I have plenty of ideas how to do this. But feel stuck when it comes to the execution. It’s madening. I am constantly feeling like i lack the knowlage to create and express the things i desire. My Fi, Knows what it wants but my Te, dosn’t know how to make it happen, or so it seems to me at present. It can be a very unfulfilling way to live.
And i believe it can spill over into ones daily life.
Even i have found myself saying, My job has no healthy outlet for my Fi, so in turn i start hating my job. Or my home life has no outlet, so my Fi may start impacting the very enjoyment of my home life. I guess my ah ha is this.
Feed your functions. Personaly my Fi is starving in some very specific ways and i recognize this. Now i have to get into action to give attention where my mind and soul are craving it.
Man does that sound tireing! Lol And i understand that its not just as simple as Fi needing more attention. Im simply expressing an personal ah ha moment that i appreciate. In a condensed written manner.
✌
I thought this was really helpful.
As an INFP, I can really relate to the idea of “becoming” someone, instead of simply accomplishing things.
My dad is an ISTJ, and one area where we tend to disagree is on goal setting. As a Te user, he sees goal setting as the only way to really accomplish things in the world.
I haven’t found that as helpful. But, I’ve found that if I focus on developing myself as a person, and cultivating good core values, the outerworld success follows.
according to many resources,the estimated ratio of each polarity is
Ne Si: about 60％
Ni Se: about 40%
Ti Fe: 40%―45％
Te Fi: 55％―60％
In regards of the represented influence in society,you guys are probably right――Ne Si and Ti Fe