Podcast – Episode 0303 – Personal Lessons From INFP and INFJ Interviews

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In this episode, Joel and Antonia draw out personal lessons they learned by putting together the Empowered: INFPs and INFJs.

In this podcast you’ll find:

  • Empowered: INFPs and INFJs
  • Interview series – 6 high performing INs
  • Top 10 challenges INFs report:
    • Finding purpose
    • Establishing boundaries
    • Overcoming indecision
    • Feeling judged
    • Simultaneously desiring and fearing intimacy
    • Time management
    • Lacking assertiveness
    • Lacking motivation
    • Anxiety
    • Making money
  • Core emotion to all interviews was anger
  • Anger tied to permission
  • “Anger helped me give myself permission to create the boundaries to confront the people, set up the circumstances, achieve the goals, etc.”
  • Sadness often under-pins the anger.
  • But sadness isn’t as motivating as anger.
  • Anger is the catalyst
  • Anger can help us defend ourselves.
  • “Anger is just energy. Once you recognize that, you can use it to put you on your path.”
  • All emotions serve us in some capacity.
  • Understand why it’s there, what it needs, and how you can use it.
  • “Forgiveness is a process that begins with anger.”
  • Anger is how you can find yourself on the map.
  • Anger is closer to a tool than a weapon.
  • It has some legitimate applications.
  • Anger is the one time when some people shut off the perpetual deference to other’s interests and start expressing their own.
  • Nobody should stay in anger. It is a tool for a short time.
  • Each council member found patience and forgiveness for themselves.
  • When it comes to spiritual/soul hygiene, there is one thing that never changes: eat your vegetables.
  • Vegetables: Presence work. Mindfulness.
  • Don’t let the world rush you. Be patient. Trust yourself.
  • Be present with you.
  • Forgive yourself for your mistakes.
  • Presence gives you the ability to let go of energy-hogging experiences like self-criticism and perfectionism.
  • Dharma: Purpose
  • Presence cuts you slack in some ways and not at all in other ways if it applies to your purpose.
  • You don’t roll over and give up.
  • The voice inside that beats you up when you aren’t doing what you’re supposed to.
  • Self-discipline vs. self-criticism
  • Annie Lalla talks about creating a life that will attract the love of your life.
  • It’s premature to have love until you have self-love.
  • “Never make the past wrong.”
  • Stop beating yourself up for past sins.
  • Find joy in the little things.
  • See these things as expressions of love from strangers.
  • Every time someone does something for you, see it as a loving expression
  • Focus on the positive things.
  • Don’t focus on the negative things that happen to you.
  • Even arguing with your loved one can be an expression of love if it is for the benefit of the relationship.
  • Amplify the small beautiful things.
  • Fall in love with your life!
  • Who am I to be living this amazing life? I must be a fantastic person!
  • If you love life and love yourself you will become magnetic to others with the same vibration.
  • Magnify the mundane.
  • Betsy Garmon (INFJ) “Self-care is about self-knowledge.”
  • Know yourself and become intimate with your boundaries and needs.
  • Boundary setting is self-care.
  • Daniel Karan: Self-care is about the emergent.
  • If Daniel has something he doesn’t want to do, he knows when he has done proper self-care because he has the resources to do it anyway.
  • Plenty of sleep, nutrient-dense foods, getting to the gym, getting plenty of expressions of his love language, massage, etc.
  • Introspection. Understanding the things you need.
  • Give yourself quarter by preparing for the world and caring for your needs.
  • What have I been ignoring in my life? Sleep? Water? Exercise?
  • INFs have redefined self-care for themselves.
  • Daniel Karan talked about the importance of trusting yourself.
  • “Why would we not trust ourselves?
  • We use the same criteria to trust ourselves as we do a friend or family member.
  • How long would you trust someone who lies or isn’t reliable?
  • We promise ourselves all sorts of things , then we don’t come through. “I’m going to get in shape.”
  • “I’m going to eat better.”
  • “I’m going to spend more time with someone.”
  • We disappoint ourselves, so we don’t trust ourselves.
  • If you are feeling a lack of trust for yourself, what minuscule things are you doing to undermine that trust?
  • It’s about your relationship with yourself.
  • If you find a high performer, ask them a few questions about the things they’ve learned in their life.
  • Not everybody’s journey is one of insight and paradigm shifts, so make sure they’re high performers.
  • Become the best version of yourself.
  • What have you learned from people who are a different type?
  • Empowered: INFPs and INFJs


In this episode Joel and Antonia draw out personal lessons they learned by putting together the INFx Empowered program for INFPs and INFJs. #INFJ #INFP

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Showing 24 comments
  • Bobby Young

    Just drawing a correlation with the Enneagram here. From what little I know, anger is related to types 8, 9 & 1.

    As an INFJ I’ve spent much of my life struggling with anger… such as, when it is okay to feel, IF is it okay to feel. I have spent so long trying to reject the emotion that I have learned to equate it with degradation, etc.

    Yet, I know there are SOME times when “righteous anger” is okay and even necessary. Such as, when Jesus or Nazareth overturned tables or money changers within the temple. My struggle is the thin line between self-righteous anger and righteous anger, and how to see the difference in the moment.

    Not to attach this entirely to religion; it is just an example exhibited by an INFJ (Jesus Christ) that, regardless of personal belief, also changed the world as we know it.

    • Rachel

      I’m also INFJ. I struggle expressing anger or even to recognise it in myself. I am so quick to see another person’s point of view, that it is only much later I realise what I feel, when everyone has moved on. My own feelings don’t always make sense to me so I suppress them. I realise this isn’t healthy and I’m working on it. I am actually much better in my 40’s at recognising my emotions and accepting them but sometimes I regress to my younger self, which results in me felling resentful and then guilt.

  • Margaret Newcombe

    Do you know any INFP s who can speak for INFP type today as Isabelle Myers did in Gifts Differing? I totally under stand one thing out of this . I have a lot of anger that has been directed at myself as a result of church experiences.Ive spent a lot of time searching it all out. I just want to say that I learn a lot from the old testament and Jewish people …why there is so much anger and jealousy directed towards their iincredible abilities to survive and make money and live with style and grace for so long as a nation . Emotions are real and God is not confined to passive peace and lovely happiness! He is hyper passionate , intense and yet slow to anger. I prefer to transfer my anger into passion these days. Was Jesus able to express a special type of anger for the temple place of His presence being violated? I think the real God and the real Jesus is the greatest expression of emotion the earth will ever see. I believe He created the earth and humanity and the universe out of a very intense LOVE.As an INFP I see so much to be angry about and thank you for helping me gather some gems to ponder here, though I get overwhelmed by INFJ and ENTP musings and want to get up and do my paintings and guitar practice and plan other mundane activities .I am inspired but will need to listen again …Ne is often to quick for me ! I dont see the need to put in prose what I can say in paint poetry and song etc. God bless you both.

  • K

    Honestly did not watch this particular episode, however, I feel that you Joel Mark Witt may be this type. It is is an inspirational type. Way more inspiration than letting onto. Yes, in a weird, varied way, that they don’t let onto. Joel you are an in my opinion, not that that means anything due to my input, lmao! But the way I have come to define it (through many hours of therapy) is your world is internally defined vs. external. My sister (ENFJ) said, “I am Surprised that you are an introvert” My reply was what extrovert spends so much time on a trampoline that they wear through five of them by themselves? At that point she knew yes, I am not an extrovert, but I lean toward the introverted self. I sometimes wish I was so extroverted. The world I make up is far more interesting

  • Infjonas

    I am an INFJ and I had that moment where it just clicked in my head and the entire concept was there. I want to share this because it’s so powerful to me. We tend to pick up people’s Emotion=energy all the time. That means basically other people change our energy or even give us energy. If we can transform that into something we can use, it becomes the opposite of what we suffer from. Do not let that energy go! Pick it up, acknowledge it, analyze it, transform it, use it. We INFJs especially need to learn that, because our energy changes all the time and we are not in charge of that until we are. So handling that energy and redirecting it is the biggest challenge and hidden talent of an INFJ. That can be done only when our Harmony process is developed and trained to do exactly that: Channelling emotional energy and use it to interact with our environment. In other words, serve the needs of our environment and yes, that includes our own needs, by giving it back. We are already good at shifting energy, because we have no choice but to do it all day. But that needs development. In order to know where the energy is needed and how, we just use our Ni. That makes us happy and gives us energy. So instead of having us being the trash can for emotional waste, why don’t we use, and make it a constant circle of giving positive energy. And that’s what we are wired to do, creating win-wins. In case an INTP finds a problem with my theory, sorry my accuracy is off sometimes. In case what i just said is exactly what the rest of podcast is about, sorry it’s hard to surprise an INFJ with insight after you give him a hint and his Ni starts to run with it. LOL

    • Rachel

      This is an excellent idea and definitely worth trying. INFJ

  • Firda

    This is insightful and eye-opening. Thank you! – infp

    • Kathryn

      Yes, thank you!

  • Jessie

    This is exactly what I’ve been looking for! I have been trying to grow my co-pilot by developing boundaries and connecting with others. It has unfortunately been a very slow process. I’ve been trying to gain traction, but I couldn’t figure out how. I also knew there was something I wanted for myself, but couldn’t define what it was. Every piece of advice in this podcast was useful, but the part about learning to be present and falling in love with your life was game changing. This is what I’ve been looking for! I am implementing these strategies immediately and taking part INFX Empowered as soon as possible.
    Thank you so much for the work you do and helping others grow and understand themselves. You guys are a blessing and I appreciate you so much!
    I do have a question though… Isn’t mindfulness/presence work pretty much the same thing as developing extroverted sensing? I am an INFJ and Se is my three year old. How can putting so much energy and investment into something so low in my stack be beneficial? I thought Fe was the way to go? Please let me know if there is something I’m not understanding about this.

    • Rachel

      I agree with most of this. From listening to the podcasts I have realised I really need to work on my Fe. It has been a real eye opener to realise how much other peoples feelings effect me. I want to use this in a positive way. However it is really hard, slow and frustrating. On the other hand when I recognise my Se is like a 3 year old that needs to explore and feel free but has limitations, it allows me to feel better connected to the present but in an non pressured way because I know it’s not my strong point. Sometimes all it takes is to put my walking boots on and go out alone. Climb a hill and be out in nature. Then I can go back to my life and what needs to be done feeling a bit lighter. Other times I go for a walk with my extrovert friends and feel better able to connect with them. It is also the part of me that can play tricks on me. Tell me to take risks I’m not quite ready for. Usually it’s about my Ni stepping in and insisting on smaller steps. I think Se can really help you move forward. I’m not quite sure how yet though.

  • Gwendolyn

    As an ENTJ this resonated with me in such a unique way… Like hearing music wafting from a neighbors backyard and being aware that it could really be a good time if I could locate the source. I will take your very good advice to start picking the brains of INFJs and INTJs to help me in co-pilot development.
    I am currently on the waiting list for the next INFx empowered course! Thanks!

  • Michael (A.A)

    Where is the INTx Unleashed podcast??? I need one.

    Anyway, I’m not an INFx myself, but I just wanted to share some of my suggestions from my perspective. The self care and anger advice is ridiculously obvious from my point of view, no offense, but since I’ve learned so much from NFs on how to talk more about. . . “feelings”, I thought I’d repay the favor by teaching you all to be a little more rational.

    Pieces of Advice to NFs from an NT.

    1. Realize that some of the people you’re people pleasing with are thinkers, and I’m sure you know better than me how feelers work, but I’ll tell you more about us. Reacting in a more logical and calm way in disagreement actually causes us to respect you more than dislike you. Some people imagine a debate full of angry insults as “logical,” but no, that’s a shouting match. It’s also emotional, even if they call it logical as a lot of “neckbeard types” do, except the emotion is more of anger than something less hostile like sadness. Some immature thinkers think otherwise, please ignore them.
    2. Sometimes if you want to calm down an argument, you don’t do so by being emotional in declaring your love or expressing rage. Especially very cynical or hardheaded types won’t care. So do what a lot of rationals do. Become calm and even a bit cold for a moment. Then as you listen to their arguments, answer with something neutral like, “Ah, that’s very interesting,” or “Ah, I see.” Those emotional persuasive techniques will make you liked, but it won’t make you respected or intimidated to back off. So when arguing, breathe in a deep breath, repeat a calming mantra in your head and strike with a very piercing attack. Being calm is intimidating because it gives the message that you don’t give a f***.
    3. Learn how to tell if someone in conflict with you is lying. I’m sure a lot of feelers can often tell if someone is lying by their body language or intuition for example, but how thinkers can tell if someone is lying is often essential. The thing about telling if someone is lying with emotions is that you can tell how they’re feeling, but that doesn’t actually reveal the deeper reasons to it. Maybe someone is nervous because they’re just shy, not that they’re lying. That also doesn’t allow you to know when someone has good intentions or is confident, but they’re still objectively wrong about their decision. So here is my advice. Look up the website dataisbeautiful. See the logical fallacies article. Memorize them. Use them in everyday life to become more confident with your own decisions with yourself and other people.

    You’re welcome.

    • Heather

      I’m listening along but there is something, one point Joel made, that I have to address immediately.

      Please don’t try to suggest that an argument is always an expression of love. This is a dangerous road to go down and could easily be used to excuse toxic behaviour.

      Yes, it can be caused by love, a need to be heard, but we need to ensure the tools are there to detect toxic actions.

      • Heather

        Sorry… that was meant to be a stand alone comment.

  • Nicholas Dunstan

    I think it’s safe to say that the universe works in mysterious ways. I hadn’t listened to the pod cast for a little while and this morning at the gym when deciding what I should let rattle around in my head while working out I had a gut feeling that I should check out the Personality Hacker Pod Cast. Opening Google Podcast to find the episodes I wasn’t sure what I was looking for, I just had a feeling I would find something that might answer a question I didn’t even know I was looking to answer or, hear words that might help my mood/ mind set. Sure enough, near the top of the list and the only episode that caught my eye was this one. From all the online surveys I have taken (I know they aren’t the most accurate but it’s all I have for now) I am an INFJ and this episode really hit home. I am most definitely one of the people whose uses anger to make changes, although I refer to it as letting my give a F@#K meter hit Zero which then allows me to make a change. I was happy to hear I was also not the only one that shared the same struggles other INF’s have expressed in their interviews with finding purpose, self-care, and trusting myself. I just wanted to say thanks to the Personality Hacker team and look forward to checking out the INFX Empowered course and to implementing some of the suggestions from this episode.

  • Clara

    Thanks for this great podcast and putting up this program. I’m sure it’s of high quality like the previous several ones I’ve had the chance to try before at PH.

    I would have two questions which might be of interest to others too, so I post them here.

    . Are there any empaths and/or hsp amongst the members of the Infx Council (if that can ever be shared)?

    . Could you share a bit more about the Study Guide?
    Since i started my self-development journey mostly based on self-help methods, I’ve found such ‘workbooks’ quite useful, not only to understand my way of functioning but also as a way to form and implement new routines, habits, be more in action in general. Hence, this question on ‘how practical’ the study guide is. I don’t ask about how deep it is because i know and sense the program will be!

    Thank you,

  • S.U.

    I think anger is also an important emotional component for an INTJ to break out of that exoskeleton that Antonia refers to in her article on INTJ found here.
    As an INTJ trying to break out so to speak, anger is a recurring emotion.
    I believe that the final actions and attitudes allowing for breakout will involve lots anger.
    The anger would also act as a defense mechanism to protect “nougat-like center” as it is continually exposed to the external world as the INTJ moves forward. No one would actually see the anger because its all internal though.These are thoughts that popped up in my head listening to the clips in the INFx webpage about INFPs and INFJs and how they have found strength to be successful. Since INTJs also use Fi like INFPs I can see this program being helpful for them to.

  • Amanda

    I’m sure this episode is helpful for some people, but most of this episode, for me at least, was like, “well yeah”. I sometimes forget that others have such a narrow view of self-care (I’m a counselor, so I guess that makes sense). The anger bit was interesting though, but not necessarily surprising. -INFP

    • Amanda

      Oh but great job on the time-machine/ not beating yourself up piece! More people need to hear that particular message.

  • Jen

    Love the anger discussion. INFJ here, and anger has played a huge part in my growth over many years. I learned that anger is an indicator that violation has taken place – and sometimes it’s me violating my own boundaries, values, or preferences. Sometimes it’s in regard to another person I care about – they have been violated. It’s an indicator that I need to take action and address violation. Yes. Absolutely anger helps. It is a good part of our emotions which serve as part of our navigation system. When it’s mishandled, there’s a problem. The feeling itself tells me a violation has taken place, and I need to figure out what’s going on and what I want to do.

  • Laurita

    This is excellent! Loved the info about not going back to the time machine and beating yourself up for mistakes! So good 🙌🏻

  • Julie

    Oh my gosh. I was casually listening while puttering when you stated the underpinning core emotion and I stopped moving. My mouth dropped open and I moved towards the speaker and was riveted. As an INFP, I identify with this very well. Thank you for this episode that has come up at, of course, the perfect time in my life. I’m working towards your INFx Empowered program!

    • Karen

      Great podcast! Of course, I’m a fan of all of your episodes, actually. You asked what we’ve learned from other types. Mine is a long list, but the lesson I will say here is that I have learned a lot about the value of preparation from 2 ENTJs I know. As an ESFP, I tend to rely on improvisation. But I am so much more successful when I invest the time and effort in pre-work. Who knew? 😀

  • Elle

    Wow! If I could only give this a million stars and just as many likes! I’m an infj and although happy to finally know my type… as of September 2019…this is the first time I have felt that a video/audio really gave me useful and specific strategies to balance myself. I couldn’t figure out what to do next. I had a greater awareness of myself through mbti and knew that I wasn’t just a strange bird out here alone in the world lol. But what do I do about those weak points, the things that make me feel like I’m living less than a peaceful and amazing life? This podcast begins to answer those questions for me. I have direction now because of this podcast. I just feel so empowered! Like I’m about to really live on purpose! Thanks so much ~INFJ

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