Podcast – Episode 0304 – How Personality Types Feel Judged
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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about the differences between personality types in how they experience judgment.
In this podcast you’ll find:
- What is judgement and how does it affect our lives? How creating the Empowered for INFJs and INFPs course prompted Joel and Antonia to explore their relationship with judgement.
- Joel’s experience with judgement as an Authenticity (Fi) and Effectiveness (Te) user.
- Antonia’s experience as an Accuracy (Ti) and Harmony (Fe) user – and a recent situation that caused her to examine her thoughts on judgement.
- Where does the saying “judgement is a knife” come from – and why does this metaphor capture the nature of its effects?
- Joel uses a personal example to illustrate that the degree to which you swallow external judgement is really based on your own internal judgements.
- What happens when judgement becomes a habituated way of thinking?
- The apparent virtue of self-deprecation – and why this actually “cuts” connection.
- Changing your perspective and response when someone “hands you a knife”.
- The relationship between the extraverted judging functions and judgement.
- The difference between using calibration and judgement as a way to measure yourself and your results.
- Adopting a gratitude practice to overcome self-judgement.
- Reapplying judgement as a tool for praise – and why people can resist this.
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I think I did respond to “mess” As well. As an ENTP who jas listened to over 100 podcasts, it just wasn’t representative of your overall style and intent. I went right to authenticity. Now that Ive heard your reaction, BAM! I completely see myself in this. Your calibrating role is counter to such a broad statement! But BOY! Do I feel LONELY all the time when I reach out to be humorousconnected and it flops.
Again, SUCH a huge insight into my own functions through you!
Keep showin’ up girl! Joke more! Maybe with quotes around any written chagrin.
I’m an INFJ, and I confess to having had a strong reaction to the line, “Kids, you’re a mess,” too. Antonia, I don’t align with my initial reaction, but it was anger akin to a sense of betrayal. I think that the majority of us INFJs (& INFPs) go through life with a conscious or unconscious fear that we ARE a mess. That indictment of myself still occasionally surfaces when Ni dominance leads to some major sensate blunder. I think most INFXs have experienced judgment and shame due to not being able to function more efficiently, or more like other people— leaving us feeling like a mess.
The betrayal I felt was actually part of a fantasy I think we, your listeners can easily fall into: That you understand typology so thoroughly (which you do!) that you can see into our souls (no one can!), and so must have known the very raw nerve the word “mess” was striking. Hearing you talk about the observation of how others connect that inspired this line was so endearing. I deeply appreciate yours and Joel’s transparency for many reasons, not least of all because when you bring your own typology into the conversation, it humanizes and contextualizes for me your extremely valuable perspectives.
Thanks for fleshing that out more. I personally enjoy humanizing myself with failures. The worst place on the planet is on top of a pedestal. The fall is always such a pain in the ass.
-A-
I tend to share a lot of my opinions (as respectfully as I can while finding common ground) on the internet since I love discussing ideas with others, and I find when I have critics, they make the mistake of criticizing me on competence (Te) than how socially accepted I am (Fe). Usually I just make the habit of giving a set of tasks to do to Te users and telling them they can try it themselves if I want to convince them something would work. This method in debate can piss off less developed FPs sometimes but it often gains the respect of TJs more. I use my Ne to think up all kinds of experiments for Te users to try, and hopefully they’ll find it to be “useful”. As an NTP, I noticed when NTPs and NTJs work together, I have some friends, the NTPs will often have a lot of ideas but lack the organizational ability to implement them. The NTJs will have a lot of organizational ability to implement long term ideas, but will have less of a flexibility to work out ideas when things don’t go with the plan along the way. So what happens when we work together? Boom. Friendship! Or well, more than that sometimes.
I find that in places like debate forums, for instance, unhealthy feelers are more likely to make arguments on my character around this. I mean, come on, this is literally a place for discussion to make healthy conflict. Why else would you come here in the first place? “You’re forcing others what to think.” I keep saying I never said I’m trying to force them what to think, and my Fe feels hurt in being told I’m breaking some of the ethics of debate. (1. Find points of agreement first. 2. Never make insults as arguments. 3. Always try to listen to both sides fairly.)
I find that a lot of Fi users, immature ones (I’ve met some very intelligent ones, mind you), is that they often make arguments on the fact that this discussion on social issues doesn’t discuss them specifically. It’s like when you’re discussing debate on what to do with mental health issues around depression, but they’re so angry you didn’t include OCD or bipolar. They feel “boxed in” apparently. I keep saying if they have different ways to work to grow themselves, they’re free to try it. The thing about debate on societal issues is that it’s impossible to accommodate every single unique situation, and I’m far from an expert on every unique background, mental or physical disease, and special differences some would emphasize. But I keep insisting that I think of solutions to respect EVERYONE’s individuality. I try to think of as many for as many different groups I can, but I can’t do “EVERYONE”, as some people keep insisting.
It’s like when FPs seem to get irrationally angry that all of the advice from a book, a video or a podcast doesn’t apply to them individually. Come on, people who make resources like that can’t possibly get to know the thousands or millions of people individually who consume their resources. Take what works for you from it, and ignore the others. Period.
I died of laughter when Joel said “We’re inside your head” and Antonia said “Girl! you’re a mess!” I’m sorry you got back lashed, I read the e-mail and thought it was pretty funny and I perceived the connection Antonia talked about at the moment!
As an INTJ I do struggle with judging myself and others more than I’d like to admit. I tend to feel a lot of people is “stupid”. And even though I consider myself a very intelligent person, I also think I’m stupid for ANY mistake that I make, no matter how small it is (so judging others is nothing more than a reflection, although I don’t want to admit it!). This gets worse when I’m under stress, were every little mistake is just another reason why I’m stupid and so are others, and then it’s a loop of negativity towards myself and others until I recluse myself to books, video games, work, and solitude to calm my inner name-calling voice! Then I emerge like beautiful butterfly (Girl, I’m a mess! Hahaha).
Anyways, thanks for the podcast! Very interesting as always!
EDIT: I wanted to edit the comment because I was looking for the e-mail Antonia mentioned and I can’t seem to find it even though I could swear that I read it! Is this Mandela effect?!
Anyways the point of this reply is to suggest that you add an “edit” option to the comment section. 🙂
When the new episode come out, my first reaction was that it’s probably not one for me. I mean, I am a fairly mature INFJ, I take pride in not judging people, so I don’t have judgement issues, right?! I still listened in because I love your podcast overall – and wow, did that strike me! Turns out, I do have judgement issue – self-judgement issues, to be precise.
I have been struggling recently with episodes of my deepest insecurities hitting me badly and I’ve been trying to wrap my head around what that trigger process is. Listening to your podcast, it suddenly popped to my conscious in full clarity: it’s a judgement issue, and the problem is, it’s judgement of my immature 10 year old playing the judge. So really what’s happening is that I am going into a full blown tertiary loop…
My issues is that of feeling unwanted, not important (to people that are important for me), or just being played with. If someone who I feel strongly connected to doesn’t act or react in a way I want or need it, my Ni-Ti tandem gets me into a bad self-judgement loop. For example, someone I deeply care for showed less than normal responsiveness, was less available than usual. So, lacking interaction, which would allow me to perceive actual Information, my Ni began to fill the gaps and a pattern emerged that my Ti believed to accurately recognize as one that showed lack of sincerity of that person. So Ti told Ni to look for more clues that would support that judgement – and of cause Ni saw a whole fireworks of indications that Ti willingly took into consideration for the (self-)judgement.
I realized this when I listened to Antonia talking about the habitual self-judgement that we tend to constantly apply and that drives our thought processes. So, I think what’s happening is that about habitual thought processes can push us into the loop, unless we are using the virtual knife as a tool to cut the loop and open up our mental processes to include the extraverted view. In my case, I found myself in a long and very deep conversation with said person and that gave me the much needed Fe perspective and supported my extraverted judgment process (turned out she was just extremely busy and stressed out). So I began to see the situation differently and, very important for me as an INFJ, I was able to look at it from an extraverted point of view.
So, I guess that was a long comment just to say that I really appreciated this episode as an unexpected, but very profound thought starter! Well done personality hackers!
Excellent and insightful as always.
Personally, I tend to feel judged for what I believe and often I fear disconnection if I were to reveal what I really think. I only speak freely to a handful of close friends whom I trust.
I also tend to be critical of what people in positions of influence teach others. I have been making an effort to keep my minor criticisms to myself in order to maintain positive relationships (I still speak up for the important stuff, though). I think I’ll take your advice and try to find good things that people say and call them out for it.
The other way to work with Krishnamurti’s quote about the knife: it can be a useful tool when used based on discernment rather than judgment. In that case utilizing the knife can be a life-affirming choice and not something that leads to loneliness. In this case the knife is not a weapon, but a tool. Exploring the nuanced difference between judgment and discernment might be an interesting topic for a future podcast. Food for thought!
I’m with you – seeing his quote as a tool rather than a weapon gives some flexibility to it. Disconnection is, itself, contextual. That said, for most people disconnection creates loneliness, and understanding that we can be responsible for that disconnection by ‘swallowing the knife’ is an important reframe.
-A-
The talk of the knife reminded me of your earlier comment in a recent podcast about ‘preferring surgery as an approach.’ I very much agree that one has a choice between whether something is used as a weapon or a tool. (By the way, going back to the Goddess podcasts- I see/hear you relate to Aphrodite. I stand corrected ☺)
Not specific to this podcast, but overall…
Just wanted to say thank you for caring about the audio quality of your podcast.
I have issues with my ears and it makes a huge difference to me being able to consume content to have good/high quality audio and have things not sound like someone’s just using the mic on their laptop. I appreciate the effort (not to mention cost) of maintaining high standards in this area.
Thanks again.
I loved this episode! I enjoy all of your podcasts but how my Fe/Ti axis receives and deals with real or perceived judgement is something I have been doing some in-depth work on for the past year or so, so this podcast really struck me.
I also wanted to add that I am an auxiliary Fe user and I still find navigating the nuanced Fe world a bit of a minefield and put my foot in it a lot.
Thanks for the awesome content🙂
“No, no, you disapprove of me. And I will not accept drinks from gentlemen who disapprove of me.”
Holly Golightly