The Difference Between Personality Loops And Subtypes | Podcast 0444

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In this podcast Joel and Antonia talk about the distinctions between a personality loop and personality subtype.


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Showing 12 comments
  • Jared Vaughan

    This was a much needed Podcast that I shared with 18 different Facebook groups.

    Don’t forget too that the more you grow your strong right armed parent (2’nd function) your strong left armed critical parent (6’th function) grows with it in shadow form.

    Whereas the shadow of the 3’rd function, the trickster, is our weakest function. And has minimal potential for growth.

    Because remember according to Darionardi’s brain scans and the Socionics 4-dimensional model the 4 strongest functions are the 1st/2’nd/5’th/6’th.

    The only reason in MBTI the 3’rd and 4’th are higher in the stack than the 5’th and 6’th is because the 3’rd and 4’th are preferred (and more valued) in decision making.

    Essentially the 3rd and 4th are stand alone functions. Whereas the stronger 5th and 6th are slaves to the 1st and 2’nd.

    The only exception to this, is when through trauma, we become shadow focused. And then the 5th and 6th are favored in decision making over the more vulnerable/peace loving 3’rd and 4’th functions in order to fight some outside aggression.

    For an INTP, this that has happened to me when excessively worrying about my Te status and forming Ni tunnel vision to achieve that status through breaking through Se barriers to feel good about myself (Fi.) Without opening my mind to better Ne possibilities and having the Si patience to focus instead on how I can better add value to people’s lives (Fe.) Which would then have allowed me to better achieve (Te) and follow a more clear Ni path.

  • Nancy Jaynes

    I believe I heard you, Antonia, refer to having strong negative opinions on alternate or newer “offshoot Enneagram” theories. I am a huge proponent of Enneagram Tritype theory because I know that my Six is my second in command, right behind my core Four. Beatrice Chestnut, who you’ve featured in your programming, is fabulous, but she’s a purist. For some people, the Core type is quite dominant, but for many others, like me, the second type in the Tritype is a close second, and in that case, a purist approach doesn’t fully fit. I do hope you’ll look into it further. Thanks!

  • Heidi Shuler

    Such a great podcast! This helped me see and understand a lot, but it also brought up a question for me. Is it possible to overuse your auxiliary function? Or to be too dependent on it? I ask because as I review my life (especially through my journals as I reread them but also just through introspection), I can see how Fe was my dominant for a long time but that’s not because I’m a dom Fe user but because I leaned so heavily on it in an unhealthy way to make everyone else’s life so much better because I could readily see their needs and go to the rescue. So it was definitely unhealthy, and I feel like I had to get better boundaries around that function, but I only really can look back and see an Ni/Ti loop that lasted for a long time when I was in high school and really it came out in my journaling more than in action (I’ve definitely had sporadic episodes of the loop since but I still feel like my lifelong problem is an unhealthy over-dependence on my aux than a loop). I would love to understand this better.

  • Trevor (INTJ)

    Your approach to type wasn’t the first one I came across. It’s the one that seems to me to be one of the best approaches.

    The first approach, I came across, was the stereotypes. You do a quiz for a career agency and they give you the stereotype description. I don’t want to dismiss this approach entirely, it does have some merit. It did give me some interest in improving myself in terms of my personality.

    I did find the Youtubers that try to break down MBTI in terms of subtypes. I think this recognizes that an MBTI type can come in different flavors. Learning that some INTJs operate favoring their Fi over their Te was interesting. I could be wrong, but it never seems as healthy to me as an INTJ to favor my Fi over my Te. I find it brutal at times to be stuck in a Ni-Fi loop. Usually, journaling seems to be my best way out of that loop. I do enjoy Fi more so when my Te is in control but not trying to eliminate Fi. I think your car model help me understand this. Te (parent) relating with Fi (10 yr old). In terms of how subtypes show up, I think there is something to be said about how careers impact this and learning different skill sets that are maybe only a subset of a cognitive function. Dr. Dario Nardi’s book “The Magic Diamond: Jung’s 8 Paths for Self-Coaching) help me understand subtypes more. I figure it explains why my mother and I both INTJs show up differently. I pursue careers in STEM and she has a successful counseling career.

    Also, being 49, I’m athletic now. More so than some 20s and 30s somethings. However, most people don’t know I wasn’t a natural athlete. I was kicked off a baseball team at 6 years of age. And didn’t really pursue team sports and found it hard to learn anything to do with Se. However, I have gotten good with years of a small subset of Se, but I remember the journey, it wasn’t natural to me.

    I love your recent series of interviewing people from each MBTI category. And I love how you interviewed people who didn’t quite fit the MBTI stereotypes.

    Thank you for all your material.

    • Antonia Dodge

      I definitely believe there are different flavors of all the types. Right now I’m most aligned with Dario’s concept around ‘analytic’ and ‘holistic’ versions of the each of the cognitive functions, and how our preferences for these versions create very different styles of the types. (Dominant, creative, normalized and harmonizing, respectively.) And career choice is very influential in these styles.

      Thanks for the comment.


  • Ryan INFP

    Think i just seen how close INFP and ENFP are. I will be honest i had no idea for awhile what Antonio was on about.
    I think TI likes to copy and TE likes to start from scratch. How long did it take to realise it would not save the world?

  • Jessica

    I’m a fan of your approach to personality content and the YouTubers who (I think) you’re talking about.

    I found your content first and use it as a backbone to explore some of the original content produced by another beloved couple on YouTube.

    They’re content addresses type by focusing on the simplicity of the heroes journey, suggesting that to transcend your shortcomings one must move past their initial preferences. They talk about the need to become able to make your work useful to yourself, valuable to the world and functional for all people which is why they talk about the importance of the lower functions.

    There’s no doubt at this point that I’m an INFP. I started my career in the medical field and broke out of it to produce comedy, perform live and write a musical and produce it. (The musical was critically acclaimed but produced a financial loss for myself.) Doing the musical broke me out of the FI SI depression but it did not produce results in the real world. That’s when their content about the need to incorporate identity, intuition, sensing, and thinking into my life came in handy.

    I have since taken my skills into the business space and become a UX designer, which is a lucrative career that uses my dominant functions to empathize and create digital solutions that are useful for all people.

    My life is in a much better position for the understanding I’ve gotten from their content.

    Now my big goal is to get back into my creative life to fulfill my expectations as an IP to be the best of the best and produce some sort of art that is widely loved and consumed.

    Their content isn’t as simple as just calling loops subtypes. It’s incredibly useful in their approach to personal growth.

    I wish I could invite both of you and Dxxx and Sxxxxx to a dinner and listen to the wisdom both couples have about life and type.

    I’d suggest doing a deeper dive into their content to understand that they definitely emphasize personal growth and practical advice to their listeners.

    To me, Joel and Antonia are the OGs of the type world where people should start.

    Thanks for talking on this topic!

  • Justine G

    How about sub-types as a way of simply recognising different ways types show up? Doesn’t mean they are set in stone.

    One thing that disappointed me in this regard was how despite having explained briefly in your book about how some people may be more fixated on the fixation of their tertiary or even inferior function than that of their dominant, you then appeared to abandon this idea in your podcasts, e.g. saying ‘if you’re an EP, you’re fixated on freedom’. It wasn’t the same thing as loops (albeit I’m sure there is some overlap), and I wanted to know more about it and whether this was why I have trouble seeing myself as INFP and even consider ISTJ sometimes.

    I’m tempted to think that flitting between INFP and ISTJ might mean there is a loop ‘hole’ in the system.

    • Antonia Dodge

      I think we have talked about the fixation of other positions (auxiliary, tertiary, inferior), but it invariably routes back to the dominant.

      If I can find where we talked about it I’ll shoot you a comment with the link.


  • Justine G

    I think it almost doesn’t matter how you teach a personality typology, it will alienate some people simply because its mass-produced and it can’t speak to everyone. This could possibly be more a problem of ‘framing’ or language-used than core-principles, but you are going to alienate some people simply because they don’t feel you’ve spoken to them and their experience. This is exactly how I’ve felt with every myers-briggs or JCF theorist I’ve ever tried to follow.

    No one is obliged to shoe-horn themselves to the nearest fitting personality category simply because the others fit worse, and I don’t even think this is a particularly good idea. This is one reason for people keeping on flaying it out.

    I also don’t think there is any particular reason to worship the John Beebe model, it’s not even like Jung specified an ordering of functions. I don’t think the so called 8th function is generally the worst or most feeble function – I think this is much more like to be the so-called 7th function. Something which a couple of reasonably-sane theorists I’ve observed on youtube have also said, not that this proves anything.

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