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In this episode, Joel and Antonia go on a journey of discovery where they showcase the need for positively expressed Introverted Feeling in today’s world.
In this podcast you’ll find:
- The Wire (HBO)
- Introverted Intuition (Ni) “Perspectives”
- Ni is a perceiving process
- Dominant function for INTJs & INFJs
- Copilot function for ENTJs & ENFJs
- Real understanding without the depth of intimacy that Fi feels.
- Ni feels objective. Understanding for understanding sake without empathy.
- Being able to understand someone is different from validating their feelings.
- Compassion can be the result, but it’s not the mechanism Ni uses when understanding another person’s perspective.
- Ni gives us the ability to study things dispassionately
- NTJs are more likely to look at everything in concepts of systems.
- NFJs are more likely to look at people as systems.
- But both can play both sides.
- It’s about removing the individual’s personal feelings, so those feelings don’t create bias.
- To get underneath what is happening
- Fully clocked Ni is a simulation of Se which observes reality as it comes.
- Instead of outside world sensory info (Se), Ni simulates that process internally.
- Entire realities created within itself.
- If some of our language around Ni sounds like Ti and Fi, remember that T/F are judging functions. N/S are learning functions.
- Ti is looking for truth
- Fi is looking for intent/desire
- Ni doesn’t want anything. It follows its internal bliss and allows things to surface as it will.
- It has the intent of insight, but it doesn’t want anything. It’s just observing.
- Ni is captured by simulated reality.
- Si has a past orientation. Impressions built over time. Experiential.
- Ni doesn’t have to experience something. It takes what it understands about sensory stimuli and creates simulations of reality.
- Why does the world need Ni?
- Black Mirror (Netflix) looks at how technology advances to dystopian futures.
- Ni developed to assist survival situations.
- What does it look like if this happens?
- Ni gives us the importance of consequences.
- Ni can run the simulation and share it in a way that others can understand.
- What will happen down the line if I knock this domino over here?
- Ni taps into the depth of imagination.
- Ni looks at the fundamental principles of the human mind.
- How do minds operate? What are the patterns that the human mind tends to attach?
- Fi: “Whatever is most personal is most universal.”
- Ni: “The macro reflects the micro, and the micro reflects the macro.”
- We have a lot of disagreements right now; Ni can help bridge the gap to create a simulated shared reality.
- For Fi, it understands the power of narrative, and if it doesn’t dive deep into its intent and motivation, it can start to manipulate the power of narrative to get what it wants.
- Getting to that dispassionate place is hard for NJs (especially NFJs).
- NJs mind has given them a place to go to create psychological distance from people.
- Ni can keep shifting perspectives until it finds one it likes.
- “I’ll just find a perspective where I’m happy.”
- What crosses supports you.
- All of our strengths can be turned against ourselves.
- Ni can get so lost in its simulations that it doesn’t bring its gifts to the world. It just stays in a place that isn’t good because it can make peace with it… for a time.
- The world needs sophisticated Ni to keep the gift of being able to see multiple perspectives and run simulations of worlds that haven’t been created.
- The world needs Ni.
- We are entering a more complex world. We cannot know what is going to happen.
- We aren’t going to make it as the human race unless we have a future perspective showing us where we are heading.
- Ni in the backseat can still give you a future paced viewpoint.
- ESTP: “Some people don’t know they’re alive unless they’re in pain.”
- They understand that people come with certain mindsets.
- Fi can hold space for the darkness of the heart.
- Ti can hold space for people’s darker thoughts.
- Ni can hold space for people’s mindsets that aren’t serving them.
- Si can hold space for people with dark pasts.
- Ni taps into how we talk to ourselves.
- Ni users love NLP: How our minds construct reality.
- ePrime
- Inner dialogue is not the same as inner narrative.
- Tap into the inner dialogue and the way you use words to describe your reality.
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49 comments
The use of certain lingo in this podcast made me feel a little bit out of my depth but I think I managed to follow.
Is it possible to store abstractions or rather, triggers for them? I think I am an Ni dom and I experience Ni this way. When I read a book things can get a little overwhelming so I write down phrases or words that stand out to me and sometimes I’ll pin pieces of paper on my noticeboard. Over time, I’m able to gain more insight into situations in life from poring over this material. So I archive bits and bobs (more often externally so I can reference them over and over again) but I have to store them in their most essential nature. Almost like a distillation process.
I should add that the example you gave of the ENTJ who could deliberately choose to reframe his perspective may be a sign of his Te practicality. His Ni- auxilliary serves his Te. INTJs and INFJs find this alot harder. In the case of the INFJs, they may show this ability to understand your perspective when in councilling mode, but they dont do this for their own lives and beliefs.
Antonia if I may, and I don’t mean to speak for Carolyn. I think she’s referring to what Joel said about his INTJ friends not really empathizing with him, for example when he would talk about a past emotional challenge such as feeling jealous about something, and he felt incredibly understood but not empathized with as he would do or has experienced empathy from others.
It’s typical for many INTJs to understand how someone feels and their perspective that made them feel that way but they wouldn’t generally say something empathetic like “I’m sorry you had to go through that, that must of been really hard to deal with Joel.”
They may say “Yeah I can see how you’d feel that way, I’ve felt jealous too, we as humans tend to share universal emotions and feelings Joel, so you’re not alone in your experience.” The expressions of understanding are usually coming from a place of logic, not so much emotion as with Fe. That pesky Te has a way of filtering our sense of empathy or emotion and having it sound more like problem solving, or some kind of advice as we may fill someone’s need to feel validated with perhaps a story of a similar experience, or a reference of some kind to illustrate what we see in our minds.
If you want to measure or gauge an INTJs level of empathy watch what they do or watch what happens after they do something. Their empathy is felt by them and they do as Carolyn said empathize with someone’s pain but they tend to take action to resolve the pain versus talk about it. They’re the ones bringing medicine for a sick person, or loaning money to a friend to fix their car so they can get to work, or they take brain scans of people to prove that cognitive functions actually exist so that the MBTI isn’t seen as pseudo science, but more so as neuroscience. They find problems to solve, and it’s why they tend to listen so much to negatives or even go looking for the things that cause pain in the world, so that they can relieve a burden or heal a wound by way of action. They know inherently that ruminating on something solves nothing. They are much more linear than process thinkers.
Trying to use Fi as a vehicle for empathy, and have it come out as a Te action is hard to maintain especially when it’s in speech form.
So we will explain that “yes a woman will try to make you jealous intentionally, by talking to other dudes that you may think in your male mind are good looking and you get triggered. They do this to get you to take some sort of validating action to assuage their insecurity that they are wanted and desired. It’s immature and it’s a mind game, that doesn’t need to be played and you should tell the offending party that you won’t tolerate that level of disrespect.”
If that doesn’t work to snap him out of it, that’s where our empathy starts to run on fumes, and we get irritated and go on the offensive, so then we quickly turn into the sensor and would give him a piece of our mind.
We may say something to the effect of " Hey Joel, enough of the ruminating, it’s in the past you can do nothing about it, you traded up when you found Antonia, you’ve got a sexy ENTP at home and you’re bitching about someone in the distant past, who gives a $#!!, that chick from the past is a worthless piece of $#!!, she F-ed up playing you for a fool, so let’s go get some brews shoot some pool and focus on something better, don’t make me break out the taser put you in the trunk and take you there, I’m not joking I’ve heard enough of the broken record you sound like a miserable old lady and it’s getting on my nerves!!"
I agree that INTJs like NLP, it’s why I became a master practitioner and also a hypnotist. We know that breaking someone’s state, may mean using shocking language or changing their physiology, because no one can remain in a negative state of mind when they are experiencing positive physiology.
In a way the pretend narrative I outlined above is possible, but I will try humor or empathy, or logic before I break anyone’s balls. I know that if I blow up it’s because I’m all tapped out emotionally, and even though I look for negatives or come off as cynical, I’m really looking forward to something more optimistic and positive for the person I’m engaged with and that is my focus. Surprisingly people often think in present terms and would accuse an INTJ of being negative, or pessimistic when we don’t really think that way at all. Everything we do in our minds is for the greater good.
I also thought many of the descriptions of Ni perspective taking here should really have been for Ne. Ni does build internal pictures of how the world works, but these are more in the realm of a person’s inner psychology and collective unconscious. The kind of playing with external real world patterns is more Ne. For example, I think Charlie Brooker (writer of Black Mirror), is most likely an ENTP.
I aslo disagree with the podcast that Ni can easily shift perspectives. Again, this kind of flexiblity is more common with Ne-doms. Most of the work done on the function axes find that Ni-Se filter info to fit one common grand narrative/vision/picture. This explains why INTJs are so singular and determined in their visions for change, or why INFJs get attached to their idealised visions of the world.
I think I should just add that I may be an ENFJ. Sometimes I feel certain I’m an INFJ, sometimes an ENFJ. My perspectives didn’t kick in until midlife (as described above) so this males me feel I’m an ENFJ. It’s difficult because I’m sociable but introverted BUT…I was more extroverted when I was younger. I’m definitely an intuitive ’blender; which also makes me think ENFJ is more likely. Any thoughts appreciated :) (Oh and I tested INFJ recently but that may reflect my more introverted ways, enjoying being on my own etc in midlife.
I remember Antonia advising an ENFJ to go deeper rather than have too many superficial friends and that rings true.The description of ENFJ ‘Tribe over self’ by DaveSuperpowers on YT feels very true. Do INFJ’s relate to that too?