PHQ | QUESTIONS: How Can A Feeler Man Romance A Thinker Woman?
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PHQ | QUESTIONS FROM COMMUNITY: In this episode Joel and Antonia answer a question about how a feeler man can romance a thinker woman.
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I’ve been listening to these podcasts for quite awhile to help me not only from overthinking every situation, thought, and feeling, but to help me be at ease with myself and others.
I may be skeptical on the MBTI, (and everything in life), but if it helps categorize the mind, then I’ll let it be.
According to it, I’m an INTP.
I’m gonna fumble words to get this out, so bare with me and all the “I’s”.
I’m 21, female, and in my first relationship with a guy I’ve only dated for a month, but noticed for several.
I’ve never been attracted to anyone in my life, physically, until him and I’m afraid I won’t be able to meet his needs, or he with mine.
I fear this because of the things I’ve observed in my younger days, particularly my sister and the guys that came and gone in her life affecting her greatly.
I don’t know if it’s our childhood that made her the crazy, jealous, verbally abusive gal, or the relationships she formed with these questionable guys.
Basically, I fear becoming her being in a relationship. That the person I’m with won’t be good enough for me, or that I won’t be for him, and we’ll end up hurting each other the way she did with her’s.
I’m stressed out about the idea of being in a relationship and I don’t know what the hell I’m doing. I feel happy, as does he, but I also worry about compatibility. I do have a hard time living in the moment because predicting an outcome was a (may be the wrong word for it) defense mechanism growing up.
All I ever wanted is to be happy, and he’s given me that, but then serial monogamy comes to mind and I don’t want to start again, and again, and again… essentially, becoming like my sister…
He tries to assure me affection is normal and the pace can go slow. My problem is I don’t want to hold him back or let him go…
Sorry that I don’t know if this is a question, a confession, or simply looking to bounce ideas!
I neglected to mention that I have never dated, kissed, or even experienced much mutual attraction with anyone. Some of it is due to choice, but it’s mostly just circumstantial. I would be lying if I said fear wasn’t a factor in this situation, but I think I’ll be fine. Just thought I should add that detail.
So, to sum it up, how would you impress an INTJ female? Also, does it make a huge difference on what type you are? Just curious. One more question: what would your general view be for an INTJ and a ESTJ relationship?
I wanted to weigh in as a thinker female married to a feeler male (INTJ/ISFP). Listening to this podcast, I thought repeatedly that your ENTJ female is incredibly fortunate to have a man interested in her who wants to understand her that deeply. What Antonia is saying about needing to feel feminine really rings true – my husband won me over in the beginning by being very assertively romantic – red roses and dinner dates – but I’ve had men write me poetry and wanted to gag. It’s got to be genuine and tuned in to her. Just as you all discussed, it was important that he planned and took charge in that arena as much as it was that we were doing something overtly romantic. I wish he had retained more of that over the years!
INTJs and ENTJs both have Authenticity and Sensation in the backseat, and looking back they were both powerful for me when I was dating. When I was Micah’s age, my relationships were often too driven by my 3-year-old Sensation – my inner hedonist. I have that typical hard shell with a lot of vulnerability beneath it, and a physical connection would break through that shell. Also, though, that Authenticity piece for me means that I wouldn’t fake attraction that wasn’t there (very bad at setups and blind dates), and I had zero patience with someone trying to “put on the moves” without a real connection, which is why your sincerity will appeal, too.
It seems blunt, but if you’re still wondering if she wants you, then you should probably kiss her like you really mean it, and you’ll find out. If you wait too long or you’re too tentative, it may turn her off. Other sensory pleasures like good music, food, wine, etc. will help bring Sensation to the forefront.
That said, the PH post on how different decision-making styles express and experience love really resonated with me. Effectiveness is only my Co-Pilot, but it’s this ENTJ’s Driver. That probably means that “go with the flow” may not be the best approach at all. If you show that you can take control, at least in some areas, then she can relax, get out of her head, and not worry that she’ll have to take over. Good luck! I’m a little jealous!
Thanks Amanda for giving us a little further insight into the heart of the feminine thinker. It always helps to have multiple perspectives. 🙂
Thanks! I really appreciate the perspective. Lately I have been more intentional about connecting with this girl. Recently she sent me an angry looking selfie and said “work was a shit show.” I agreed that work sucks, but I sort of bypassed her comment and complimented her looks, which she really liked. We only have a month before we move back to campus and I plan on being honest about where I am with our relationship. I think it’s a good idea no matter what her reaction is.
Thanks for the check-in Micah. We are all rooting for you! 🙂
Great podcast. You know I’m interested when I’m listening to it at the gym instead of Metallica!
I wish I was getting this kind of advice when I was 21. 🙂
I’m an INFJ who’s into MB and who’s dating an ENTP, so naturally I have a few thoughts on the topic.
First off, I totally agree with Joel. “Way of the Superior Man” is awesome and should be required reading for feeler men. I think a huge part of the battle when it comes to dating/attraction between feeler men and thinker women is the dynamic of masculine and feminine energy.
More specifically I think for men it often comes down to learning how to be comfortable in masculine rolls that might not come naturally to us in isolation. I think a lot of feeler men grow up being uncomfortable taking charge and being dominant (I definitely did). David Deida’s work helped me see the picture in a way that it made sense to me, which made it easier for me to adapt and grow in this area. For me, becoming more aware of the masculine/feminine dynamic has helped me be more comfortable and secure in both my masculine and feminine energies.
It’s really helpful to be able to make distinctions between being a feeler and being feminine and being a thinker and being masculine. A great counter-example to the F=feminine, T=masculine stereotype is Elliott Hulse. You can look him up on YouTube. He’s very much a feeler (ENFJ) and very masculine.
It might be a little tricky to discern whether you, yourself, have a masculine or feminine essence if you’re a male feeler. This was confusing for me for quite a while and it wasn’t until I started to make progress in developing in this area that I started to see the picture. I’d recommend checking out some of David Deida’s video/audio material. Some of it is on YouTube. He’s a very straight-shooter in workshops and watching how he explains this to other people can help bring some clarity.
As a general statement I would say that regardless of T/F that the vast majority of men who identify as straight have a masculine essence and the majority of women who identify as straight have a feminine essence.
As counter-intuitive and out-of-my-comfort-zone as it’s been, developing my masculine side has been where all the leverage has been in this area. I think that if you’re uncomfortable taking on a masculine role then you’ll be, in a lot of ways, unattractive to most straight women.
I think one thing that’s really important for straight, thinker women, in order to feel at ease and really connected in intimacy, is for a man to be able to take charge and hold space for her to be comfortable in her feminine energy. It requires more trust than it would for a feeler woman. I think that the more masculine a women’s energy appears to be by default, the more of a yearning there is in intimacy for her to be able to be feminine. She needs to trust your masculinity in order to get there.
Anyhow, I hope things work out with your ENTJ friend. Let us know how it goes. 🙂
Cheers,
– Scott
Great points Scott.
And in the words of one of my favorite movies of all time…
“We are a generation of men raised by women.” (Fight Club)
In the world of single parent homes – often a male figure is absent as boys are growing up.
So boys take their cues from the “masculine culture” they see around them and either end up becoming a caricature of a man (ie hyping up the swagger – focusing on possessing “Man toys” like cars/motorcycles – giving into aggression/anger too easily – or in more extreme situations – outright misogyny).
Or boys growing up listen to their moms and take the “nice guy” route and reject turning into a caricature of man. This leads to becoming a big wimp that allows everyone to step over their personal boundaries and dictate their lives for them.
It’s my opinion that both of these extremes are not manly.
We need true masculinity. We men need to show up self-possessed and decisive while balancing that with compassion and thoughtfulness.
It’s not about making people happy (the wimp route).
It’s not about swagger (the caricature route).
It’s about securing the perimeter. It’s about being present and owning our actions as men. It’s about staying true to our word. It’s about something greater than ourselves.
This is why David Deida’s material is so powerful. He gets away from stereotypes about what it means to be a man – and goes straight to the heart of the issue – masculine/feminine energies.
Of course it’s hard to make real men feel bad about themselves – so marketers HATE these ideas.
Marketing professional know it’s much harder to manipulate real men into buying their products that promise “manliness in a pill.”
Long response to an already excellent comment Scott. Thanks for furthering the discussion around this.
Totally! Well said. I think that’s a real challenge/opportunity for feelers in particular. We’re just not going to authentically identify with what our culture seems to promote as masculine, so if we’re going to figure it out then we need to get down to what it’s really all about.
Thanks Scott. I really appreciate your input 🙂
Thanks again for having me on the show!
I just started reading Way of the Superior Man and I am loving every bit of it. The realization that I have a “feminine core” brought so much clarity. I have made some new connection or realization about my life almost every day for the past week and it’s amazing. I can’t wait to apply what I have learned to the relationship we discussed and beyond. This half hour conversation is already changing my life for the better and I am eternally grateful!
Thanks for being a guest on PHQ Micah! You were awesome! I’m sure a lot of people will resonate with the content. I appreciated your incredibly authentic way of sharing your personal life with all of us. Don’t be a stranger!
Thanks Micah for asking an interesting set of questions.
So happy the book is resonating with you. I think it is required reading for all INFP (Authenticity/Exploration) and ENFP (Exploration/Authenticity) personality types.
Help us get the word out about Personality Hacker and some of these models and frameworks for personal growth.
Talk soon.
On a slightly different subject, Joel, what book(s) would you say is required reading for all INTJ (Perspectives/Effectiveness) and ENTJ (Effectiveness/Perspectives), the same way you see “The Way of the Superior Man” as required reading for both ENFP and INFP?
Thanks Julian for the question.
I think it would depend on the type of ENTJ or INTJ.
For example, some INTJs really identify with the concept of being the “nice guy” and need to step up. Some don’t resonate with the “nice guy” persona at all and could use some softening and flexibility.
I would argue that “The Way of The Superior Man” can be helpful to all men around the concepts of masculine and feminine energies.
Also – Eben Pagan (INTP) has some training programs (under his pen name “David DeAngelo”) about these topics.
You may want to look into “Deep Inner Game” or “Man Transformation.” These are both programs that have been developed by Eben (a thinker male) and many of my male thinker friends really resonate with the material.
I’ve personally found both programs to be fantastic.
Maybe we need to develop some of our own materials around these ideas here at Personality Hacker. If the demand is great enough – I might look into creating a program of our own.